00;00;00;00 - 00;00;09;29 Unknown That's. 00;00;09;29 - 00;00;31;19 Unknown And higher and higher and. 00;00;31;21 - 00;00;56;26 Unknown If you dig the twisted, admired the outlandish, and are enamored by the unusual, you're in the right place. True crime, the supernatural, the unexplained. Now you're speaking our language. If you agree. Join us as we dive into the darker side. You know, because it's more fun over here. Welcome to Total Conundrum. 00;00;57;15 - 00;01;09;06 Unknown One. Someone's first move. Born forward. Courtroom. Scarborough. This discussion is advanced. 00;01;09;06 - 00;01;35;06 Unknown All right, you guys, we have a really special treat for you guys today. We have a group of people that actually went and stayed at the Roth house and did their own investigation and kind of chatted with a few of them here and there, and we got a group of them together and we're going to talk about the rough house, the what Psycho Wonder, and what they experienced when they stayed there. 00;01;35;06 - 00;01;59;06 Unknown And then we'll kind of touch base a little bit on what we experienced. So let's go one by one in order. Do you guys want to introduce yourselves? Tell us what you know, what group you're a part of and go from there. Sure. I'll jump in. I'm Christina, and I am a member of the Wisconsin Apparition Tracking Society, aka twats, I love that. 00;01;59;09 - 00;02;27;08 Unknown Thank you. And, I went with, our team here, kind of knowing what was, you know, the history behind the house. I usually prefer to remain clueless, but this one was a tough one to do that. Yeah, and it was an adventure. So we had a great time. Yeah. And I'm Tony so I'm sorry Christine are you done. 00;02;27;11 - 00;02;56;29 Unknown I'm done. Go ahead. Okay. Denise I'm also part of the Wisconsin Apparition Tracking Society. The twats. As Christina said, we went back in April, we went to the Roth house, and we spent two nights there, and it was kind of a crossover event then, too, because we had to. Catherine from Ice Cream, You scream. And then we had another group of fine young ladies from the quite unusual podcasts that stayed with us as well. 00;02;56;29 - 00;03;13;23 Unknown We came across. We have so many stories. We learned a lot about the house and the different people that actually lived there, and it kind of extends beyond what a lot of people know or what we came across so very excited to share stories. 00;03;13;23 - 00;03;19;10 Unknown So I'm Francie and I am, the newest member of twats, first and foremost. 00;03;19;10 - 00;03;39;12 Unknown And also, as a team, we also, co-produced the Windy City Paris Fest. So that's where you can find most of me. We. Yeah, we stayed two nights at the Rock house so that we could party and investigate. All right. I'm Kim, I'm the last member of the Wisconsin Apparition Tracking Society and, 00;03;39;12 - 00;03;42;16 Unknown also one of the co-producers of the Windy City Paranormal Festival. 00;03;42;16 - 00;03;58;15 Unknown And, yeah, I, I'm usually kind of a little bit of a tech nerd, but I don't really know how to use all of it. And I'm very unsuccessful with a lot of it sometimes. So it's kind of amusing, but, yeah, that's that's me. 00;03;58;15 - 00;04;07;18 Unknown Hi. My name is Catherine. I am not part of the twats. I am, I'm one half of ice cream. Ustream podcasts. My 00;04;07;18 - 00;04;28;12 Unknown co-host Jenna lives in the UK, so she was not at the wrap house, but she was there in spirit. We met the twats when we had Christina and Frankie on our podcast, a few months ago to talk about the Windy City Para Fest, and we just clicked right away and it was my first ever investigation. 00;04;28;12 - 00;04;55;08 Unknown And so overwhelming in the best way. I I've been telling everyone since then that it honestly may have ruined investigating for me because it was just fantastic. It was such a great experience. So, Yeah, like I said, I'm from Ice Cream Ice Cream podcast. You can find us at Ice Cream. Ice cream podcast. We're on all the socials and yeah, well, hopefully more investigations with the twats as well. 00;04;55;09 - 00;05;17;19 Unknown I'm going to be infiltrating as much as I can. I just like to invite myself places. That's how. It's how I live my life. Yeah, I love it. You're definitely a twat by association. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. And where can we find the twats? We are on Instagram and Facebook. You will find us under the Wisconsin. 00;05;17;19 - 00;05;45;04 Unknown As in we aberration tracking society. We also have a TikTok and as Frankie mentioned. So we have all of the socials for Wendy City Paranormal Festival as well. So you can find us in both places. Wonderful. Frankie, why don't you give us a little rundown on Wendy City? I was listening to that on Derry Land Frights podcast. It was right before your, festival. 00;05;45;07 - 00;06;01;03 Unknown So do you want to give us a little rundown on it? Yeah. It was kind of amazing. And I can't believe that it was over a month ago that we. I think it feels like it was yesterday. And ten years ago, we had such a great time. The entire mission was to 00;06;01;03 - 00;06;05;09 Unknown amplify underrepresented voices in the in the paranormal space. 00;06;05;09 - 00;06;22;05 Unknown And I think, I don't know, just from the feedback from guests and presenters, I think we nailed it. Like folks had a great time. It was I feel like we have a bigger family now than we had going, and it just, I can't wait to do it again. Yeah, hopefully we can make it. We're not. We're in Minnesota, so we're not. 00;06;22;05 - 00;06;26;27 Unknown Oh yeah. And I have a foster that lives in, McHenry, Illinois. So 00;06;26;27 - 00;06;42;11 Unknown only about. I'm I'm hoping by next year, you know, folks are feeling better about traveling and spending money and that kind of thing. You know, I think that was was the thing that we were up against this year. But now that we've done one and, you know, everyone had such a great time, I think the word kind of spreads. 00;06;42;17 - 00;07;03;08 Unknown We'd love to have you. Yeah, definitely. And when you guys, plan the next one, send us the information and we'll make sure it for you as well. Thank you. Actually, I think you. Of course. So, like I mentioned, before and in some of our other podcasts, Jeremy and I actually went to the Roth house and we stayed two nights as well. 00;07;03;10 - 00;07;27;16 Unknown And we met the owner. John had a long discussion with him. He played us some, audio clips of things that people have sent him that stayed there. I love everything spooky, but I am scared to death of it in the same. So I was the one that was staring at the ceiling every night like, why is everybody sleeping? 00;07;27;17 - 00;07;51;21 Unknown How can everybody be seen? And we slept in that kind of in-between room in between the sitting room and that back room we made one of the devil pictures were, yeah, that's where I was. That was my room all by herself. Yeah. Right. Right. So we took the whole pictures down and put it across the stairs so nobody would fall down the stairs. 00;07;51;23 - 00;08;15;12 Unknown And the other one, I think we just flipped over when I want to walked upstairs. At first I was like, are you kidding me? But John said that a friend of his is an artist and he actually painted those for him, so there wasn't any like, demonic thing meaning behind it. It was just something that his friend had painted and he really enjoyed. 00;08;15;15 - 00;08;36;19 Unknown And I know like John is very if he if you know, I know he had that. Did you guys know about the psychic experience that he had when he was renovating the house? No, no, no. So when he was renovating the house, he was just down because it was taking so much money, so much time, so much energy. 00;08;36;21 - 00;09;01;01 Unknown And basically he sat in the middle of one room and just shouted, he's like, I can't take this anymore. And one of his friends, who is a psychic, called him the next day and told him that a woman came to him or came to her and said, it'll all be worth it. You just have to just push through. 00;09;01;03 - 00;09;27;02 Unknown And she had no idea that he was feeling like that, that he had said anything. And they basically said that they appreciated what he was doing. I can't remember if he actually said who the woman was or not, but that kind of helped him feel like he was doing the right thing. I'll jump in and say that from our experience there, I have no doubt that it was Catherine Clifton. 00;09;27;04 - 00;09;49;22 Unknown Yeah. Yep. The probably one of the more recent owners of the home. And and it seems that she owned the home for quite some time, but she was kind of the person that we didn't expect and we knew nothing about and who showed up in a big, strong way for us while we were investigating. Yeah. That's interesting. 00;09;49;22 - 00;10;12;12 Unknown I haven't looked into any of the current history of the House. I kind of focused on the rough side, so I'm excited to hear a little bit about that too. Yeah. The other thing that he's shared is that he has a copy of the letter from Nervy or Minerva, Mary Roth's sister, basically with her statement of everything that happened was true. 00;10;12;14 - 00;10;41;06 Unknown And, he, trying to think what else he said. Do you remember, Jeremy, if there was anything that I missed. Okay. Well, and before we went there, we have a couple of friends who are into the paranormal and they both have abilities. And I had asked Megan to remote view into the property and just let us know what we were looking into or what we were getting ourselves into. 00;10;41;08 - 00;11;07;05 Unknown And she had said that there was kind of a yin and yang. Spirits are two yin and yang spirits in the house. There was like an old hag type person up in that sitting room upstairs. And then there was more of, a dark energy in the basement. And they both had the same eyes, almost like swirling eyes. 00;11;07;07 - 00;11;39;12 Unknown And then after she closed her remote view session later that night, this woman came to her, said that she had followed back the the trail or the tail or whatever of the remote view, the string and the woman was flipping between a doll and a human, and she said that the woman had said that her spirit was trapped in the doll, basically, and she had been in the house for a long time. 00;11;39;14 - 00;11;59;26 Unknown Well, I'd mentioned that to John, and he kind of like, sat up a little straighter and he's like, really? And he goes, follow me. Brings us up to I think it was, would have been, the master bedroom upstairs and he walked into the closet and pulled out three dolls. 00;11;59;26 - 00;12;07;23 Unknown And the dolls were not original to any of the owners in that have owned the house. 00;12;07;25 - 00;12;12;25 Unknown There was this this gentleman that was known to be kind of, 00;12;12;25 - 00;12;36;20 Unknown we'll just say a little, on the obscure side from town, and he would show up at all of the events that they would have there, and he would just randomly just sit there and stare at the property. Well, when that man, before he passed away, he asked John to take the dolls in because he thought they would be a good fit for the home. 00;12;36;23 - 00;13;05;09 Unknown John didn't really like them. He put them in the closet, that attic closet. And when the guy passed away mysteriously, like a week later, the man's guitars showed up, leaning up against a tree outside, and he doesn't know how the guitar got there or anything. But John thought it was very interesting that I had said something about her seeing these, this doll and these dolls were in the house, so that was kind of our conversation with John. 00;13;05;12 - 00;13;28;18 Unknown We Jeremy didn't feel anything. Actually. We all left the one day to go venture out into town and kind of talk to some townspeople. Jeremy actually took a nap when he was there. During the day, he was down in the basement for a while. I went down there. He finally convinced me to go down to the basement, and while we were down there, we were getting some rum pot activity. 00;13;28;20 - 00;13;54;27 Unknown We came upstairs and I was playing the video of the REM pod activity we were having in the basement, and we would set the rampart on top of the grand piano, and that was that main living room. And all of a sudden the REM pod started reacting at the same time as what it was in the video. So the video I'm playing saying, can you touch this? 00;13;54;27 - 00;14;19;09 Unknown And then the rampart would go off in the video and on the grand piano went like, okay, can you back away? And it would stop in the video and on the grand piano. And we had ring cameras set up and on the ring camera, I caught footage of when I asked it what its name was. All you hear is a camera just like this kind of growly. 00;14;19;09 - 00;14;46;08 Unknown You can't make it out. Can't say it was actually legit, but there was no other interference on any other video from the ring cameras. And I'm trying to think the I think that was pretty much the only thing that we really experienced there. Do you remember? Oh, no word thing. Yes. Jeremy was videoing me up in that sitting room upstairs. 00;14;46;15 - 00;15;12;20 Unknown We were on an Instagram live and this orb. Why don't you describe it? Jeremy? Well, basically I'm recording her and as I'm watching her like a ball of light kind of came out from the top of her head, went up towards the corner, the ceiling and then over in the other direction towards me. And it was just kind of moving in weird directions and stuff. 00;15;12;20 - 00;15;40;23 Unknown So but it was the only one that we ever caught that night. I'll send this stuff to you guys too, so you can hear it and see it. Yeah. Very. I mean, the only other thing that I remember being of significance is that Jill, she was sitting. It was either Jill or Pam. One of the girls we were with, she was sitting on the couch in that main living room by herself, and she's scrolling on her phone and you can see it, you know, it's just her on the ring camera. 00;15;40;23 - 00;16;01;21 Unknown You can hear some laughing and, you know, joking around from the kitchen so you can hear that in the background. And all of a sudden you hear three knocks like, right by her. She stops and she looks around and she goes, who's in the bathroom? Because she said it sounded like it came from the bathroom under the stairs. 00;16;01;23 - 00;16;30;22 Unknown And she sat there for a minute, and then she walks over to the bathroom. She opens the door and she's like, okay. Then it walks into the other room and she's like, is anybody knocking? But you could clearly hear it in that room and so those were the big experiences that we had when we were there. But like because there was so much noise and like half the people were partying, the other half were trying to do things and we had some activity on like the Geo box. 00;16;30;25 - 00;16;55;15 Unknown I don't even know if we've actually even gone through all of our recordings yet. There was just so much because we had so many different things set up and just finding the time to go through it. That's the hard thing about paranormal investigators. I actually, I actually just started, going through some of our recordings the last couple of days, and I never do this, but at Ross house, I just laughed to my recorder running. 00;16;55;15 - 00;17;27;02 Unknown And so I, I have at least between two recordings or three recordings. I have probably a full 24 hours wow of recording to go through, and I think I've gone through three hours so far. That's hard. Yeah, yeah. But I think the thing that's that's interesting that I want to point out is, Noel had brought her big mouth, Billy Bass, and he was on the piano, and nobody would be in the piano room. 00;17;27;02 - 00;17;55;05 Unknown And it's motion. It's motion activated, and it would just start going off. And we all went to bed at, what, like 3 or 4 the first night, maybe even five. And Denise and I slept in the first bedroom on the stairs and the front of the house, and the piano is right below us. Yeah. So I was trying to sleep and all I could hear was big mouth Billy Bass going on, like, going off like, every 20 minutes. 00;17;55;08 - 00;18;20;27 Unknown No. Yeah, yeah. That same song. Yeah. Go back to it around like ten in the morning. And I was like, oh, maybe someone's downstairs making coffee. Yeah. Singing don't worry, be happy. Yeah. I thought maybe someone's making us coffee. Yeah, yeah. And it just kept happening. And finally I went downstairs and then Katherine joined me and we realized that, no, it it was just going off all night. 00;18;20;27 - 00;18;40;21 Unknown And it was funny because as soon as we were downstairs and sitting there, in the dining room, enjoying some coffee and chit chatting, it stopped. As soon as we came downstairs, it stopped. And then I think Frankie came downstairs next, and it popped up and went off. When he walked by and, so the battery hadn't died. 00;18;40;21 - 00;19;08;15 Unknown It was still working normal and just behaved itself. But overnight it was. And it was sitting right on the grand piano where you said you had your iPod. So cozy in that room was that that front living room was pretty active for. We also did some, our version of Esther's method and in that room as well. And, you know, I think that room, though did seem I think it it only makes sense. 00;19;08;15 - 00;19;31;08 Unknown It would be the room where guests would be entertained as well. But I can say going into it for us, I knew the history. I knew about the watch seeker wonder I for those who are listening, it's the first recorded case of possession in the United States, and I knew that it was a spiritualist family, or at least some of them were. 00;19;31;15 - 00;19;54;24 Unknown So being a practicing, which I had prepared some spell work for us to do while we were there, I also went in with the thought of trying to approach it from as much as I knew of a spiritualist sense, so we did make sure that we spent a lot of time in that dining room in the round at the table. 00;19;54;26 - 00;20;26;01 Unknown But I will agree. When I walked in at first it wasn't the feeling of there something being in the house. Francie and I walked in through the dining room into the kitchen. As you come in that front door off to the left hand side. And it was. The two of us looked at each other and we both kind of agreed that we didn't feel a lot in the house at the moment, but what we felt was someone looking at us and it was bright, broad daylight, but we felt like someone was watching us from outside. 00;20;26;03 - 00;20;52;18 Unknown There was a lot of observation happening. Yeah. And he and I kept remarking that that is really the overall feeling that we felt was that there was this observation. And I think, you know, I tried to really set my intention ahead of time that we were respectful of that spiritualist sense that we wanted to come into the space and respect that I established the spell work that we did as a group at that dining room table. 00;20;52;18 - 00;21;18;03 Unknown Very gentle, loving. It just helped open up the communication. Nothing scary. I actually was so comfortable in the house. I stayed back while everyone ran errands and I took a nap at one point that was scare me. Yeah, yeah. And and, just really felt a comfort. So we had some very diverse experiences as far as physical things happening while we were doing spell work. 00;21;18;05 - 00;21;38;05 Unknown And I think another time we were just sitting at the dining room table chatting. We had multiple occasions where the door in the kitchen to the garage, which if you're sitting at the head of the table that faces the front of the house with your back to the kitchen, it's directly, you know, a few steps behind you, out into the to the attached little garage that's there. 00;21;38;08 - 00;21;54;13 Unknown And it it popped open at one point. That really startled us, but it did pop open on more than one occasion for us, to the point where we finally put some things in front of it, and we played around with that door there. That door, you know, didn't have a tendency when you walked in a certain spot to open. 00;21;54;13 - 00;22;17;18 Unknown It did not have a tendency, you know, to have a handle that didn't latch all the way. It just was one of those experiences where we was that the door by the washer and dryer? No, it was actually the door that would be just to the left of the stove. Yeah. Okay. There's a hutch on the on the wall to your left as well, but it's kind of between there. 00;22;17;19 - 00;22;38;23 Unknown That was we had the washer and dryer, that little screen door and there kept popping open on us. We assumed it was wind or something. It was during the day, never at night. But the big door in the dining room did blow open as well. When we were, when only a couple of people were there. Not everybody was there yet. 00;22;38;26 - 00;23;00;06 Unknown And again, they're like, well, I'm hoping it was the wind. So I will say that big door at the front of the house in the dining room does not latch like, at least when we were there. So that, you know, we always I always say though, you know, we have all this equipment. For me, the experience is what I can say that really, you know, and I witnessed it. 00;23;00;06 - 00;23;20;16 Unknown Right. I can go back and listen to audio, I can look at video and it's wonderful to have. I appreciate it. But how do you know it's not someone else talking in another room, especially when you get a big group like this, right? I mean, you yeah, but we we did. I think we've gathered some good evidence from that experience. 00;23;20;16 - 00;23;47;08 Unknown I believe Denise was able to capture the back door opening on us that I enjoyed. And Catherine. Catherine court. Yeah. An image that just absolutely blows my mind. Do you want to share part of that one. Well it's funny because the reason I remembered to even send it to you all, I because I also took forever to go through my photos. 00;23;47;08 - 00;24;10;15 Unknown But I was talking Gina and I were talking on a recent recording of our podcast that I am notorious for spotting faces in a window that's like my favorite thing to look for. I am facing a window girl for some reason, and I caught one. I got a face on the window. It was during that time, we were all setting up. 00;24;10;15 - 00;24;29;23 Unknown We, you know, we're kind of getting ready to get ready to get started for the evening. And it was that time that Christina was talking about that everyone was kind of feeling like we were being watched. Not not in a bad way, just in like, it kind of felt like they were. They're used to people being there. They're used to seeing a whole bunch of different people. 00;24;29;23 - 00;24;57;19 Unknown They were kind of clocking us and just seeing what our vibe was, and Christina and Francie had been talking about that, and I was just going through taking photos on my camera, just casually, honestly, mostly just because the house is beautiful and I wanted photos like I wasn't looking for anything. I wasn't trying to get anything. But then when I was going through them, there's one shot where I was standing in the living room, that, like entry, that front room. 00;24;57;19 - 00;25;21;01 Unknown The piano was on my left, and I was pointing the camera toward the stairwell and the front door and and the window next to the door. You can see what I think looks like a face. And if you look closely, there are actually a couple of spots in that window that you can see multiple spots that look like they could be faces. 00;25;21;01 - 00;25;43;03 Unknown There's a couple that I'm like, well, I immediately it was like, I, I can't not see those one on. I once I look at it but I can send it to you guys. But yeah that was, that was the, the one that I got that I was like okay, I'm, I'm putting this in my personal inventory because yeah, that was because on the other one there wasn't anything that could reflect on it or anything. 00;25;43;03 - 00;26;07;05 Unknown So yeah, I was proud of that one. Nothing there. It's the closest thing is a tree which is in the yard. Right. Yeah. And I think the thing that was most remarkable to me was the most obvious face. If you take and look at a photo of Mary Roth and you look at this face you're seeing, you know, kind of this outline here, the hairline and this hairstyle is almost exactly the same. 00;26;07;12 - 00;26;30;18 Unknown The nose shape, the jawline. It looks like the image of Mary Roth that's in the house. But there's no way that that would be reflecting because it's actually on the same wall. And there's not a reflective surface right across the way. So it did seem interesting that that was the capture right around the time that we we're all having that experience. 00;26;30;20 - 00;26;44;25 Unknown Yeah. And it's so interesting that a lot of it happens in that one room where the sand, if I remember correctly, the sand says that they had were in the dining room, dining room and from what John was saying, I believe 00;26;44;25 - 00;26;52;14 Unknown the table in the basement was original to the home when he bought it. Okay, 00;26;52;14 - 00;26;54;01 Unknown so there's a table in the far. 00;26;54;01 - 00;27;11;29 Unknown I don't know if it was still there, but in the far back room in the basement, I didn't even that to the basement. He didn't know. Did any of us go to the basement? I forgot there even was. I am not a spider girl. Yeah, Frankie, I remember, dared me to go in the basement and I was like, first of all, I'm over six feet tall. 00;27;11;29 - 00;27;36;08 Unknown So, yeah, those ceilings look really low to me. And also, I don't want spiders in my hair, so you know what? I'll hang out with ghosts all day long. But I am not hanging out with spiders in my hair, so I had a very. Jeremy didn't say he's never had a paranormal experience, so he's very skeptical. So he didn't feel anything. 00;27;36;08 - 00;27;59;03 Unknown I just felt very it was heavy when I was in the basement, and it took a lot for them to convince me. It was like day two, and I went down there and then he, of course wanted all the lights off and I'm like, ooh. But, at the bottom of the stairs, there's actually like a hole in the wall that goes under like it's dug out. 00;27;59;03 - 00;28;19;29 Unknown So I don't even know what is back there. You know, for the most part, the basement was pretty clean and I didn't it didn't feel like it was too cobweb. When we were there, but it was just, it was, Well, I went back in September, so. Yeah. Are you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. How fun. Basement time it is. 00;28;20;05 - 00;28;51;12 Unknown All right, all right. You can wear a helmet. Yeah, or a bathing cap there like a beekeeper. There you go. Oh, there you go. So you were saying that, you had, come across some new history on the. Yes. So one of the things that happened, and I can't remember when she kind of came forth for us with it was when it might have been when Frankie was under for just at the dining room. 00;28;51;12 - 00;29;23;29 Unknown Just I think, wasn't it during or unsuspecting. She was there during when we were doing the board. Oh yes. We remember she was venting. Yeah. She was telling other people to keep them, their thoughts to themselves. Yeah. She wanted to speak, yeah. Very direct woman. She has a very distinct, stylish look. And I know Frankie saw her, and at first she, you know, and I can see this. 00;29;23;29 - 00;29;45;13 Unknown She almost came across as masculine, but as we got to know more about her, that that makes sense for her time was Catherine Clifton. And so we now refer to the house as the Roth Clifton House because of her presence. But we did do a dive into the history of her, the the Heights, Nick and Noel, who were unable to join us today. 00;29;45;13 - 00;30;07;25 Unknown They also had looked into the history of her for us overnight after that first night, and we found out so much about her. So she owned the home her her stepfather had actually left her the home she owned, the home she was a pilot, and she managed a large area of the farms around there, like thousands and thousands of acres. 00;30;07;25 - 00;30;33;03 Unknown And she would fly her plane to check on the status of those in her passing. She actually left a large amount of money to the city to have the current courthouse, city Hall, built for that area. But she wasn't necessarily the most loved person in the city because she was a very strong, outspoken woman, woman ahead of her time. 00;30;33;03 - 00;31;04;10 Unknown This was bad. Yeah, she really was. She was a super artistic. She loved the property. She's actually the person who built the pool in the grotto in the back. All of those stones were from her travels around the world. She did a lot to the home to take care of it. And she was very present for us. And it it wasn't in she was persistent and she was very forward, but it was more in the matter of like, hey, I'm a big part of the history of this home as well. 00;31;04;10 - 00;31;25;16 Unknown Without her, I don't think that home would have been even in the condition that it was, when the current owners got it. And I know they did an immense amount of work on the home as well, but she really it was there many photos of her now in the home. And at first, like, I tried not to look at those photos. 00;31;25;18 - 00;31;46;25 Unknown They're all kind of on an easel in the back living room there on the main floor, because I didn't want it to influence anything. But they are photos of her life and her time there. Her plane parked outside of the house. Yep. Favorite one. Yeah, yeah, I love that one. And so, yeah, the pool in the back. 00;31;46;27 - 00;32;12;10 Unknown It's actually if you walk out the raised patio. Okay. The grotto is to your left up against the house. I remember you walking straight ahead. There's some trees and the back yard line. There is an area where there's another patio there out towards the back. Yeah, that is actually the pool. Okay, so we have some, drone footage. 00;32;12;13 - 00;32;31;12 Unknown I'll have to look and see if, you can actually still see. Yeah, the ground will settle, so I'll have to see if it's. Yeah, it's actually filled in. So it is like a patio out back there. There's you can tell. Oh there. It's okay. Now, I believe one of the, one of the pictures that's on the easel actually shows it. 00;32;31;12 - 00;32;51;10 Unknown And you can actually see that it was a pool. See, I don't think that easel was there when we were there. Interesting, I know. Yeah, I don't remember it. There's that in the room with, old fashioned, record player. Yes, yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I don't you definitely. Yeah. If it was there, you would have seen it. 00;32;51;10 - 00;33;12;27 Unknown You would have noticed. Pretty prominent. Yeah, yeah. The last it's in the room with the great painting of Jesus. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. The last day that we were there, I finally allowed myself then to, to look through all of them. And Denise went outside and tried to recreate some of the photos together. Oh, fun. Yeah, yeah. 00;33;12;29 - 00;33;16;24 Unknown Very fun. Yes. That piece of history was missing when we were there. 00;33;16;24 - 00;33;36;19 Unknown Some do some of that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I have photos of the photos and then. Yeah. Yeah, that would be awesome. What we trying to do. Yeah. There's the way they decorated that house was just it's beautiful. Yeah I did a full walkthrough with you know videotaping everything. 00;33;36;19 - 00;34;03;04 Unknown You know the, all the rooms. And I almost fell down the stairs because it was my first time walking down the stairs. And those hair boards aren't all secure. They were when we were there. It's kind of steep. Yes. And I know I'd seen there is a filmmaker and ghost hunter. His name is cam. Cam Crosby, I believe, and I think he's part of Dark Lux production. 00;34;03;06 - 00;34;29;17 Unknown I watched a YouTube video of his, investigation before we went there, and when he was there, the house was not finished, and he had a psychic that was there, and he was supposed to come and meet us there that weekend because he wanted to see the inside. How, you know, the house now that it was finished and he was going to share some of the information with us, but he had a family emergency and wasn't able to make it. 00;34;29;17 - 00;34;47;19 Unknown So, so that was kind of a bummer, but we did like I said, we got to meet John and that was amazing and had them all come over for dinner and sit with us and yeah, nice. Yeah, yeah. So what else did you guys, experience or encounter? 00;34;47;19 - 00;34;53;04 Unknown I was going to say one of my favorite things was going to the cemetery because we didn't do that. 00;34;53;07 - 00;35;16;25 Unknown And we found Katherine's family mausoleum and where she's buried and just a lot of people. And the Roth family, buried in a cemetery there. And so it was really like the spiritualist community. There's a lot of markers in there, which Christina knows a lot about that stuff. So that was really that was really a fun history lesson that, you know, we didn't really know. 00;35;16;25 - 00;35;22;11 Unknown So it was really good to tie that. And to the investigation that we were having. So 00;35;22;11 - 00;35;29;09 Unknown Yeah. And the cemetery, it was interesting that like in the middle of the 19th century up into the early 20th century, you don't 00;35;29;09 - 00;35;36;14 Unknown see any like crosses or, you know, enhancing the kind of stuff that you would see in a Christian, you know, 00;35;36;14 - 00;35;40;21 Unknown in a similar town in America of that time tended to be Christian. 00;35;40;21 - 00;36;11;12 Unknown There's none of that until like about 1915, 1920s. So it's obviously a very spiritual community because they they didn't use those types of symbols typically. But it that that cemetery has a really great feel. The energy is really like fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. That was a highlight for sure. Yeah. We, I had looked up the information for Mary Roth because and just all, all of the family to see if anyone had been buried nearby. 00;36;11;14 - 00;36;35;19 Unknown And she, she was the one who was closest and the one who was most prominent in the story. Unfortunately, you know, other people who were prominent to the story besides her family are not nearby in the cemetery. So we went I had no clue about the cemetery layout or where she was. And my favorite part was that we're riding in the car and, you know, it's kind of a winding cemetery. 00;36;35;21 - 00;36;54;17 Unknown And we come around the corner and Kimberly was driving and I was like, stop the car right now. And she did. And if you look exactly to my right, like up the hill all of a sudden right there, I got out, just walked right there. I don't know how I don't know why. Just it was one of those things where she was like, I'm right here. 00;36;54;17 - 00;37;34;09 Unknown And we I had brought in a gift and offering for her to leave. And and we also left something at Katherine's grave, which I not knowing about Catherine before we went, I didn't know that she was also there. But before we left, we did check and she was buried there. So yeah, that was just one of those things where it was it was very meaningful to have had the first night of interaction and then be able to go to the cemetery, and also went past the courthouse where Noel had gotten out, and walked to the front of the building and actually heard her name spoken while she was standing there, to the point where 00;37;34;10 - 00;37;40;15 Unknown it made her feel unsettled. And it's not as if there were other people around. Yeah. 00;37;40;15 - 00;37;53;14 Unknown Yeah. Every small town. Yes it is. Yes, yes. And that's kind of out of the town a little bit. And we also went past the other home involved in the story, which used to be a home that you could 00;37;53;14 - 00;37;55;23 Unknown utilize for investigation. 00;37;55;23 - 00;38;10;08 Unknown And unfortunately no longer is. So is that the original Roth home or that is the venom home? The allure at the bottom. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, just took a moment to drive by and acknowledge everyone. 00;38;10;08 - 00;38;16;12 Unknown The opportunity to do that when it presents itself is something that, you know, we find important as a team. 00;38;16;12 - 00;38;39;06 Unknown Just our approach being super gentle and, and our focus being interaction over capturing evidence that that's kind of when where we set ourselves apart and what we have had great success with for us, we some of us have previously been on a team that's very fact based and as techie and scientific as it can be. 00;38;39;06 - 00;39;01;08 Unknown So, as Kim said, we have all of that. We use it. But, our focus is really that feeling of connection and interaction. One of the things I had also done was thought about the sense that in a spiritualist community, oftentimes they would still get up and go to church every Sunday morning, even though they had a say on Saturday night. 00;39;01;13 - 00;39;27;12 Unknown But, but as Francie said, they're not going to present themselves in the traditional sense of Christianity. So there is an absence of a lot of that in the cemetery, which just kind of feeds into that concept. We had some extra sessions that helped to support that, but I had felt really called before we went to do something that we had never done before as a regular thing. 00;39;27;12 - 00;39;28;26 Unknown I had tried it once, 00;39;28;26 - 00;39;39;19 Unknown at a previous investigation, just briefly, and that was to bring some tuning forks and work with frequency while we were trying to communicate. So 00;39;39;19 - 00;40;05;15 Unknown I just felt really called to that in the spiritualist community. And, had this sense that there was something to do with frequency or sound. That was their method, that particular group of people's method for finding that space or that zone that you get into when you're reading as a seer, I'm familiar with that, and it happens differently for everyone. 00;40;05;18 - 00;40;18;10 Unknown But when you're collectively working on it, usually you have a collective trigger. I didn't really conceptualize it fully. I just knew that I felt drawn to bring frequency and sound into the investigation, 00;40;18;10 - 00;40;38;14 Unknown and hadn't really shared it with the team that I recall. Other than that I had said to you guys on the previous investigation we had done elsewhere that like, hey, I have these in my bag and Frankie went under for an assist method session during the spell work that we did and had an incredible experience that played into that. 00;40;38;14 - 00;40;42;01 Unknown So I'll let him explain that from his point of view. 00;40;42;01 - 00;40;56;24 Unknown It's interesting because it's, you know, this was months ago and I go now and I, I want, I want to remember, I want to like go. Well, I can barely remember it because it was months ago. You know how investigations get like these experiences. But then out of over time we start to go. 00;40;56;24 - 00;41;14;18 Unknown I don't remember if it was, if it was the first time, the second I know I this is like super clear to me and the, the sounds that I was hearing, I still hear every day. I still can't explain them. I've tried to try to write about them, but what happens, during 00;41;14;18 - 00;41;22;23 Unknown this early part of our investigation was I went under how it was using, the mind blockers, which is like the frequency that, 00;41;22;23 - 00;41;24;09 Unknown you know, so you can't hear anything. 00;41;24;09 - 00;41;48;08 Unknown And the glasses with the red lights is you kind of like, it's not really a trance necessarily, but it just kind of gets you in this receptive place. And, we were doing some candle magic as well, but I couldn't see any of it because I'm, you know, totally like, sensory that, I started to see in my mind's eye a storm coming and coming from the east. 00;41;48;08 - 00;42;09;27 Unknown And like as I was starting to talk about that, you can see, I don't know if we get this on video. I feel like we did. But, at that point I start talking about, you know, a storm and a wind coming in from the east. The candle that was burning it at the east went out. And then, as part of this whole vision, I started seeing a group of people 00;42;09;27 - 00;42;17;17 Unknown that were communicating with frequency and tones know, like, that's not singing. 00;42;17;17 - 00;42;38;29 Unknown I wish I could describe this. I've tried and tried and tried. They weren't really it wasn't music, but it was these tones and they weren't even really pleasant. But they were beautiful, if that makes any sense at all. And this is the part when Christina started using the tuning forks, which I had no idea because I, you know, totally was since that, 00;42;38;29 - 00;42;39;26 Unknown and 00;42;39;26 - 00;42;43;02 Unknown at some point during the these tones, 00;42;43;02 - 00;42;49;07 Unknown other tones started being added to them that, that were not made by like, human bodies or human voices. 00;42;49;14 - 00;43;25;05 Unknown And I got the sense that like, this was a communication effort from, you know, like to cross the veil. And so obviously these if a communication was coming back, it wouldn't be made by like flesh and bone, right. It'd be from some other source. And I just got the real sense that this either was physically how a group of people were communicating at some point in, in this room or in this town, or this is a representation of it, like the best explanation someone could give me, you know, just in my, in my mind alone, it was just it was the coolest experience. 00;43;25;07 - 00;43;33;14 Unknown And I will literally wake up some mornings and just hear this still. And I've gotten up a couple of times to try to write like, 00;43;33;14 - 00;43;50;01 Unknown you know, try to write what it is, and I just cannot describe it. So that's kind of like my my white whale at this point. Like, I just I'm on this journey to at some point be able to either have somebody else experience it and so we can have a shared language or be able to, to be able to describe it. 00;43;50;01 - 00;44;07;20 Unknown The closest I got was a pair of past when, lovely human in Brix was talking about frequency and stuff that they had experimented with. Let, let me hear the sound. And I was like, I was so ready for it to be the one. And it wasn't. It was really cool, but it was like, it wasn't the what. 00;44;07;22 - 00;44;37;10 Unknown I'm trying to think of the word that I don't know if it's the right word or not, but it's what keeps popping into my head when you say that, ethereal. Ethereal, definitely. It definitely had an otherworldly, yeah. Like, that's a that's a great word. And also not enough. Yeah. And I don't I don't think we recorded it on video just because I normally don't let people record me when I do spell work. 00;44;37;17 - 00;44;41;25 Unknown But I think we might have some audio recording of it. I'm not sure. 00;44;41;25 - 00;44;51;00 Unknown Yeah. Yeah, it was, and it was one of those moments where, I mean, it moved Frankie to tears while he was listening. 00;44;51;00 - 00;45;09;12 Unknown Yeah, yeah, it's it's very moving. Something we will be exploring more when we go back in September. We're actually going back with someone who they've done a lot of work with using frequency and sound in investigation, so I'm excited to see what that combination does for us. 00;45;09;14 - 00;45;31;11 Unknown And I, I would like to because our communication with Catherine Clifton was so incredibly strong. I would also, you know, of course I welcome that. But I would love to tap into the spiritualist community of the area, knowing that that's what I felt like was watching us more than 00;45;31;11 - 00;45;33;17 Unknown We'll be back after these messages. 00;45;33;17 - 00;46;06;18 Unknown Hey conundrum crew. Have you ever listened to an episode and thought, wow, I wish I could wear this level of chaos? Well, now you can. That's right. Total conundrum officially has merch, hoodies, t shirts, mugs, stickers, everything you need to wrap your favorite mystery loving banter filled podcast in style. And the best part? Our signature cute pink brain is front and center, scratching its head just like the rest of us, trying to figure out life's weirdest mysteries. 00;46;06;20 - 00;46;41;27 Unknown Honestly, it's the perfect representation of our show. Smart, a little confused, and totally adorable. Just like me. Yeah, sure. Jeremy. Let's go with that. Anyways, if you want to grab your official Tour Conundrum merch, head to the bonfire.com/store/total-conundrum and get yourself some spooky, stylish, and absolutely conundrum worthy because nothing solves a mystery quite like retail therapy. Available now. 00;46;41;27 - 00;46;49;07 Unknown While supplies last. 00;46;49;07 - 00;46;58;08 Unknown anyone else I have. I should also say that I have and I think our, our entire team kind of feels this way, a really strong belief that 00;46;58;08 - 00;47;01;23 Unknown spirit really isn't trapped per se. 00;47;01;24 - 00;47;11;05 Unknown Not saying that we haven't come across some situation where a spirit has been barred from moving, but most of the time our experiences that 00;47;11;05 - 00;47;23;29 Unknown our communication with spirit has said to us and shared with us that it can come and go at will and that it moves freely. I think that sometimes I know you mentioned the dolls. 00;47;23;29 - 00;47;26;19 Unknown I think for me, sometimes I've experienced dolls who 00;47;26;19 - 00;47;46;21 Unknown sometimes have been given almost, the energy of, say, like a tulpa, where it's just so many people have believed that this doll is haunted, that it then becomes haunted. But I also have experienced I, as a doll collector myself. Dolls who tend to have more of a energy presence themselves. 00;47;46;21 - 00;47;48;14 Unknown That spirit might 00;47;48;14 - 00;48;18;09 Unknown almost like inhabit for communication at times. That's just been my perception and reading. Yeah, that's the whole thing with this whole spiritual possession, I watched all these documentaries like The Blues Brothers did a documentary where they actually interviewed one of Lawrence's great nieces who had memories of the time, and they were basically told, just don't talk about it. 00;48;18;09 - 00;48;31;04 Unknown Don't acknowledge her, because they would walk into a room and she would be in one of her trances. And basically they stepped over her and just kept moving on. But the whole beautiful thing of 00;48;31;04 - 00;48;36;00 Unknown Mary inhabiting her to help her go through 00;48;36;00 - 00;48;36;24 Unknown the 00;48;36;24 - 00;48;43;27 Unknown whatever she needed to heal from is just, you know, when I first heard of the case, I was like, oh, creepy, you know? 00;48;43;27 - 00;49;11;04 Unknown But once I started digging into it, I kind of saw the beauty behind it and the confusion that Mary had even being in Lawrence's body at like the one point where she was sitting was her. I can't remember if it was her mom or dad, but Dorothy and Azer, both of one of them, or both of them, and she was talking about the pain of, you know, the bloodletting and the, you know, doing the leeches and stuff to relieve the pain in her head. 00;49;11;06 - 00;49;40;22 Unknown And at one point she, like, went to pull up her sleeve. And she's like, you remember the time I cut myself in the yard? And then she looked down and she goes, oh, this isn't my arm, my arms and the ground. All right. And with Aissa and Dorothy, you know, going through losing her to, I mean, from what I understand, there's a lot of confusion that from I've heard that she was at one place, then she was at another place, and I've heard she was at two different places. 00;49;40;22 - 00;50;00;05 Unknown The one place wasn't even built, so she couldn't have been there. But she went to the doing the water treatments and all of that stuff. And then she came home from what I understand, and then went back because she was still having problems and that's when she passed. There's some there's so many like different stories in regards to it. 00;50;00;05 - 00;50;27;27 Unknown It was kind of that's why I spent so long writing the story for it, because I wanted to do it justice. Yeah. And then was like Lawrence's. Supposedly Mary visited her when she was giving birth to her first child to take away the pain one last time. But then Lawrence went on to live this beautiful, pain free life after the fact. 00;50;27;29 - 00;50;43;21 Unknown And then just recently, this is something that I just thought of and it's totally random. But there was so many children that were born after Nervy and Mary. I know they had a couple losses, but where were all these kids in that house? 00;50;43;21 - 00;50;51;27 Unknown I had rooms for, you know, in Lawrence and all of these other children that were know well. 00;50;52;00 - 00;51;18;21 Unknown And where did they put them? They they must have shared beds. I'm sure that they did. I'm sure that they had many little twin beds in there, or they had large beds and they shared beds, you know, back in that time they would share beds, even if you were a family with means, right? They and for a farming family, they they were out there, they would share beds, you know, they'd have 3 or 4 little kids and a bed at once, so. 00;51;18;25 - 00;51;39;21 Unknown Well, and I guess there is that other room that I'm assuming when we were there, it was locked. The one of us up the stairs. Oh, maybe. I don't know what's in that room. So I guess there is another bedroom. Actually, it's a closet. Oh. Is it, it is. Oh. Because in that main room in the front, it actually has a door to it. 00;51;39;23 - 00;52;02;22 Unknown And I got nosy. So I went in and there was like, oh, it's it's a closet. Yeah. And we have to remember that there probably weren't bathrooms in that house. So the spaces where there are bathrooms were either small rooms or closets. It's been reconfigured a little bit. There's also that back stairwell would have been, you know, a servant's bedroom. 00;52;02;24 - 00;52;24;20 Unknown Yeah. So the family or one family. At one point in time, though, that back portion of the house does seem to be added either. That's the same brick, right? I do think at some point that was added on to the house. So it might have been after the Roth family lived there. One thing that we discussed as a team that we found really interesting was this concept in reading. 00;52;24;20 - 00;52;48;15 Unknown Oftentimes that and hearing other people speak about the story was that these two families lived extremely far apart, that they had no contact with each other, and that maybe they, in passing at one point had maybe crossed paths. But the reality of that is when we really, you know, drove the distance and then the idea that the Roths had lived in the downtown area before they moved out to this house is that. 00;52;48;18 - 00;53;18;07 Unknown Yes, it's a small community. And yes, it seems like a little bit of a distance, even if we didn't have vehicles at that point. But I'm pretty certain that they knew their neighbors and that they did know one another. I have a hunch, and it's just my personal belief that in writing the book that the physician who helped them and who stepped in and ultimately, you know, documented everything, maybe did that to make things seem more believable for people who weren't from the area. 00;53;18;09 - 00;53;39;22 Unknown There's there's always just that possibility there. And maybe they weren't a close family, but I do think that if we have this understanding that both of them were comfortable with spiritualism and the community seems to be as big of a spiritualist community as it was, the possibility that they knew each other maybe a little bit better is likely. 00;53;39;25 - 00;54;18;06 Unknown Now, that wouldn't mean, though, in the sense of time that Lawrence they would have had any sort of an understanding about Mary's experience, and probably not, because I'm sure it was not really spoken about. You know, it's not as if mental health was something that was acceptable at that point in time either. Well, and Mary really went through it with, with the documentation and the different things, you know, not only the, having the, the gift of sight in these trances, you know, being able to read things through, being blindfolded. 00;54;18;06 - 00;54;38;09 Unknown She had, my I'm trying to think she had a lot more happen than what the Wright Lawrence did. And, you know, having the pet leeches, because that was her only way of having any kind of relief. I couldn't imagine grabbing leeches and sticking them on you and 00;54;38;09 - 00;54;44;02 Unknown thinking that this is going to help alleviate the pain that she was experiencing. 00;54;44;02 - 00;55;19;10 Unknown And I mean, I don't, you know, don't know exactly what she was going through. And I know, like, epilepsy and all of these different things were not anything that anybody knew of. You know, during these times. And I also looked into in our episode, we covered some of the things that they used in the asylums. And there's like the, the Eureka crib where they would lock people in this crib and just leave them because they thought being still would fix them, or the trip. 00;55;19;10 - 00;55;43;08 Unknown Well, so, what is it called now? The turban termination chair, where they would strap you them to a chair, and there was a hole in the bottom of the chair for them to go to the bathroom, and they would leave them in these chairs for up to six months at a time. And the hot, cold baths and all of these things that they did, I mean, Jeremy made a good point. 00;55;43;10 - 00;55;48;00 Unknown We were talking about it the other day when we were driving to work, and he had said, he goes, 00;55;48;00 - 00;56;08;09 Unknown you know, with the lobotomies and other things. He goes at the time, you know, removing the ribs and inflating the lungs for, tuberculosis. They were trying to fix things. Not all doctors were evil. They were trying to find cures and trying to find ways to make things better. 00;56;08;11 - 00;56;28;10 Unknown There was the ones that were evil and was were doing it when they didn't need to. But I could not imagine living in a time like that where, let's stick an ice pick in your eyeball and see if it, you know, fixes you. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and hopefully you'll do your trigger wording at the beginning of this because I feel like this is sensitive for a lot of people. 00;56;28;10 - 00;56;53;17 Unknown Right, right. Yeah. But but I worked in mental health many, many years back as, as a very young adult. And, works for a community based facility. But then we worked closely with, the Winnebago County Mental Health Institute, which was, farm actually when it had started. It's in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. They have a really cool museum. 00;56;53;17 - 00;57;23;13 Unknown If anyone gets an opportunity to go, not many hours that they're open. But it is really intriguing to go there. And and you know, we do think about the fact that you could also institutionalize a family member for misbehaving, right? It or having Pac-Man. Yeah, yeah. And I and I also really like to point out that, you know, these young ladies in, in the time frame where they were extremely symptomatic, were also going through puberty and into young adulthood. 00;57;23;15 - 00;57;51;10 Unknown And, as as someone who is really tapped into energy, I'll tell you that oftentimes those are points in a household where a household that's never had activity might start having activity. It's just the energetic shift that's happening in the human. I see it, oftentimes when women are going through, perimenopause or menopause, those symptoms, of things tend to bring about more poltergeist activity. 00;57;51;10 - 00;58;20;00 Unknown But, puberty can bring about, you know, visions and pretty extreme things. It can also then, of course, just impact depression and some of those experiences. But if we think about the leeches, think about people who to cut themselves to ground themselves, they might be the most healthy, functioning person that you know, and you could have no idea. 00;58;20;02 - 00;58;50;03 Unknown I worked with a woman who actually went out and did public speaking, talking about her experience as someone who cut for grounding, and that was her way of like bringing herself back to her body. So when we think about the leeches, that was, you know, in reading the story as published originally, that was one of the first things that really stood out to me was, oh, while she was she was using these as an acceptable way, right, to ground herself. 00;58;50;06 - 00;59;18;02 Unknown Yeah, yeah. And then when that wasn't helping, that's when she got into cutting and she almost, she almost died because she had cut herself so deep. But yet the strength that she had, being so low on blood and having to have three grown men try to subdue her in the state that she was in is just, you know, the body is, it speaks to that energetic. 00;59;18;03 - 00;59;38;06 Unknown Yeah. Pole. Right. That ability to manipulate energy, right. And not fully understand what's going on. And and it made me wonder if that isn't what brought the community to really come together and spiritualism as well, just from what they had experienced. Right. 00;59;38;06 - 00;59;53;19 Unknown And that was the prime of spiritualism when this was all going on. This is when everything was just starting to kind of, really, I mean, I can't remember what year, like the Fox Sisters and stuff, what year they actually came into play. 00;59;53;21 - 01;00;13;28 Unknown But then you've got Harry Houdini was out there trying to debunk them all. You know, he wanted to believe. He wanted somebody to prove it to him, that it could really be. But he's like, you're fake, you're fake, you're fake. I'm bringing you down. And Kimberly and Denise and I actually grew up in, his chosen hometown. 01;00;14;03 - 01;00;16;21 Unknown Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. 01;00;16;21 - 01;00;36;26 Unknown I was actually kind of upset that Ghost Adventures tried to, play on the whole, Harry Houdini and their newest, season. They went into the Winchester house, which is something that's very near and dear to me because I've always wanted to go there. I haven't been there. Jeremy has. But, Jeremy, you gotta you got to get on that. 01;00;36;26 - 01;00;59;26 Unknown Make that dream come true. Yes. Yeah. And we. Yeah. So that's like, you know, them exploiting that place. And then they were trying to summon Harry Houdini while they were there. And like, if he's not going to come back for his wife, that he's not coming back for you. Baggins. Yeah, yeah, 01;01;00;26 - 01;01;06;10 Unknown You know, I, I, Ghost Adventures is a controversial subject, and, 01;01;06;12 - 01;01;34;13 Unknown Yeah. And that's why. Yeah, it's what I would say in the paranormal community. Right? Like there's this, like, thanks for putting things, you know, helping to put things on the map and make this an acceptable hobby, but also, like, we're not like that, right? Like, no, not many are. Yeah. But they do get this opportunity then to go into these places that many of us will never have the opportunity to investigate in that way. 01;01;34;16 - 01;01;37;18 Unknown And they put a label on a lot of these places 01;01;37;18 - 01;01;56;02 Unknown that also then really frightens people. And that's one of the many, many things I struggle with. Also, just their approach is, to me, so rude. I would never in a million years go into someone's home and speak to them the way that I or behave right that they do. 01;01;56;05 - 01;02;24;09 Unknown Now I might go into someone's home and say bad words like in just in fun. When we are done investigating and maybe we are sitting around having a nice time together. But I always kind of let spirit know our whole team is really good about this. We introduce ourselves. We talk about the fact that times are different than when they were alive, and we might say some naughty words or make some inappropriate jokes that tell them, well, you might wear pants. 01;02;24;11 - 01;02;48;12 Unknown Yes. Correct. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. I hang out with, you know, someone else, even though I'm a married woman. Like we have a man on our team. And, you know, I just let them kind of know that that's just us having fun. It's acceptable for the time, and we don't mean any disrespect, but I would never speak with spirit the way that I see that being done. 01;02;48;15 - 01;03;07;18 Unknown No, it is not our our thing. No, actually, this reminds me back to the Roth house. Is, when we first sat down, we had the, the novelists going. And when we were introducing ourselves right when it came to Frankie, it said threat. 01;03;07;18 - 01;03;17;08 Unknown And. Oh, so it was all women except Frankie. And so we kind of explained, now he's he's safe, he's okay. 01;03;17;08 - 01;03;52;10 Unknown He's one of the good ones. And then disregard him up on the list right after that. So so yeah that happens too. But we really tried it. I think each one I think I think Clifton was like, no, I don't think so, buddy. Yeah. That's exactly what I was going to say. I thought, well, two things that it was that kind of approach that kind of overwhelmed me as my first investigation, because I've seen millions of them on YouTube and Travel Channel and all these things. 01;03;52;10 - 01;04;15;17 Unknown And I'm, I would had no idea what to expect because the traditional airtime time slots are those, you know, you walk in, you start screaming, and then you claim demon and then you bounce, you know? And that was just not the experience that I had at all with the twats. So right off the bat, I was like, what is this beautiful, loving experience? 01;04;15;17 - 01;04;47;12 Unknown I'm like so overwhelmed right now. But I think that, you know, everyone in the house, all the spirits in the house, also kind of clocked that, like, I think that that was why we got such good, interactions with everyone because we had so many interactions from start to finish. But it's almost hard to talk about them because they just kind of came so naturally and everything was so calm and it wasn't like, you know, and then there was a ghost in the door, like it wasn't like that. 01;04;47;12 - 01;05;08;08 Unknown It was just very calm and interactive and, it almost felt come in place. But I think that that was why we had such a great interactions, because we did sort of clear the space and explain this is how we approach things. This is how things are going to go. We may no disrespect. This is who we are. 01;05;08;08 - 01;05;26;07 Unknown This is why we're here. And it kind of made us wonder how many people actually do that. You know, you like to think that everyone does, but how many times do they have people just bustin down the door and, you know, start demanding interactions and it's like, well, who are you? This is my house. Why are you here? 01;05;26;10 - 01;05;55;03 Unknown You know, so yeah, that was that was, I think, just a great way to to summarize the entire experience is it was just very mutually respectful. And I don't I've not seen a lot of that from, you know, the stuff that gets put out there. I felt like a very unique experience to me. There's, I feel like that's when, you know, when we were definitely being watched, when we showed up and watched for a while. 01;05;55;06 - 01;06;23;07 Unknown And I think that's my view of that, is that not a lot of things get talked about it, except for the watch seeker. One wonder in that space. And so there's all these other people that have touched the house, have been involved, have owned it, whatever. And they're all like, let's see what's what's going on. Because I feel like this group is maybe going to let us, you know, yeah, maybe someone's going to want to talk to one of us and not just Mary Grace. 01;06;23;08 - 01;06;23;22 Unknown But I'd 01;06;23;22 - 01;06;50;17 Unknown I know there's, we interviewed, a woman named Jenny. She's part of the Minnesota taps team, and we had brought her on because she not only, investigated the Palmer House and Soccer Center, Sauk Rapids there by right by other, that he also used to work there. So she has a special, you know, feeling and a special love for the Palmer House. 01;06;50;20 - 01;07;18;14 Unknown And so we had her on. I did what investigator doing our research, not investigating, but research of what I could find. And then I kind of had her as my. Yep. This is true. No, this isn't this is what really, you know, happened here. This is what hasn't happened. So it was kind of fun because I'm like, okay, this is the perception that the that the normal person knows about this home and this is the personal perception that she knows. 01;07;18;17 - 01;07;30;13 Unknown And she said that a lot of times the owner of, the Palmer House will contact the Taps team to come and cleanse it because the energy there is good, 01;07;30;13 - 01;07;44;29 Unknown but you have so many people going there and so many different events. And like the owner doesn't allow Ouija boards, she doesn't allow like if she gets when that you have a Ouija board, you know, she won't, will not allow it and she'll even kick you out. 01;07;44;29 - 01;08;09;23 Unknown And so she was talking about how a lot of times the Palmer House like calls to them literally to come and hey, give us a little spring cleaning because the energy starting to get dark or upset because you have people coming in and screaming at you and doing things that don't have experience, like Jeremy and I, we don't have any experience. 01;08;09;23 - 01;08;39;21 Unknown We just know what we've seen and researched. And so when we did go to the rough House, we came with very good intentions. We like you guys introduced ourselves, just said that we if anybody has anything to say, we're here to listen. You know and we weren't, you know, screaming at the top of our lungs demanding things. And while the partiers were screaming at the top of their lungs, but I just, I, you know, my sister was so funny. 01;08;39;21 - 01;08;59;05 Unknown She was like the one that initiated this. Her and her friends were the ones that initiated this stay. And then we get there and she was just like, nope, nope. Not doing it, not not doing it. And she's just like, if the ghosts want to party with us, we'll be in here. So come party with us. Come sit down, play cards, play games. 01;08;59;06 - 01;09;28;12 Unknown We're a good time. But she didn't want to do anything else. But it was just, you know. So we did have screaming and yelling just in a different, I think, you know, one thing to that, that oftentimes people forget to do is just to look at what if you're looking at the history of a property, even if you don't want to know the history, you can look up the date when the house was built or have a team member do that. 01;09;28;14 - 01;09;58;27 Unknown And you can kind of take a guess about and look at what were customary respectful societal rules for visiting someone's home during that time. Making sure that you acknowledge the difference as you go in like that is just one of those little things that we have found great success with. And the other thing is, is that I always have a ritual of saying hello or goodbye to my home. 01;09;58;29 - 01;10;19;05 Unknown And Denise went on one of the first times that we stayed together as the current four of us that we are. I remember her being like, are you going to go in and say goodbye to this house? We had an Airbnb. It wasn't hot dead. We just were saying there, well, we were at another event and all of us did. 01;10;19;05 - 01;10;42;25 Unknown And it has just become a regular ritual for us now as a team to give gratitude to the space that we're going into. I love that. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Denise always reminds us she's always the last one to do, like one more walk through the house. She's so good about it. She's also the person who looks up a lot of our history before we go to a space. 01;10;42;27 - 01;11;03;19 Unknown And then, you know, Kim usually is kind of in that mix with her. They share with one another. And then I spent, like, the drive there being like, stop talking about it. I don't want to know that. It's like, don't give me any hints. And, and because they're excited, but yeah. Yeah, it is. So Kim's always our driver. 01;11;03;19 - 01;11;32;02 Unknown She's so good. Like everybody, you know, I ride passenger princess and stop on the imaginary break. But the reality is, is when I drive, everybody's terrified. So. Yeah. Uhhuh. Yeah. And I'm running away from my driving. I think that's one thing that that I think was so good about the race house is because none of us were prepared for Catherine Clifton, and yet we didn't. 01;11;32;02 - 01;11;56;26 Unknown There's there's really not a lot of history publicly about her. And, and she just loves that house and that property so much. And so that was really a joy for all of us because we were exploring it. We were we were like, oh, this is a this is a really cool thread. Let's follow this. And I just I think it's one thing that we've been really shown 01;11;56;26 - 01;12;01;17 Unknown throughout the investigations that we've done it just because there's a history associated 01;12;01;17 - 01;12;04;07 Unknown does not limit 01;12;04;07 - 01;12;07;05 Unknown who you can connect with in that property. 01;12;07;05 - 01;12;43;15 Unknown And that's, you know, like a lot of these properties are at least 100 and something years old. Even properties that can be two years old, can really can really, I guess I want to say like bring you closer or bring other experiences to you. So I know a lot of people probably don't like the idea of they can go anywhere and communicate with whatever, but, it's not really limited to a location necessarily, but we do really love, the surprise of not knowing so much. 01;12;43;15 - 01;12;50;01 Unknown And then following that thread when things start, appearing and, and coming through. 01;12;50;01 - 01;13;08;03 Unknown Definitely. Did you guys venture into any of the local establishments and meet any of the locals from the area and ask them about the house at all? We went out for Mexican food when? When? I think that was the extent of our venturing out. Really? 01;13;08;06 - 01;13;33;07 Unknown Other than that, we did not. That might be something that we consider doing the next. I would highly recommend it because it is so interesting listening to people's I mean, everybody in that town is terrified of that home. And everybody we encountered and they all have stories of different people that have been in there. It's never firsthand. 01;13;33;07 - 01;13;51;27 Unknown It's always, you know, twice, third removed or whatever. And they all have stories about it. And we actually have one guy after Sanjay, his, little clip, he let me video, I said that I put it on the podcast. If I got it's going to. And the other thing that shocked me 01;13;51;27 - 01;13;58;13 Unknown is I wasn't prepared for how I mean, I live in a small town in Minnesota. 01;13;58;15 - 01;14;35;04 Unknown I was not prepared for how how rural, how like not suburban being in Illinois and being as close to Indiana. I was not prepared for the dialect, the accents. I was like, did we step into another world? It was crazy. And some of the people went, I'm cracking up because I grew up very constipated with you. I grew up very close to there, and I live in Wisconsin now, and my husband always makes fun of me for having a southern accent. 01;14;35;06 - 01;14;42;22 Unknown And I'm like, I don't have an accent, I don't have any dialect. I just speak the way I could speak. And when I went there, I was like, wait, 01;14;42;22 - 01;14;56;10 Unknown this is how I sound? Actually, I'm like, if this does sound very different to me now, after being in Milwaukee for 7 or 8 years and I don't wait, okay, I hear no, you have an Indiana midwest accent. 01;14;56;11 - 01;15;16;24 Unknown Yeah, I yes, I when I spend too much time with my husband the the big and the all comes out okay. But what I can say. So I'm a little more northern now, but yeah, I did. I noticed the same thing because I, you know, I've been saying for years that there is no difference in dialect, like there is no accent. 01;15;16;24 - 01;15;37;19 Unknown That sounds exactly the same as you. And now when I went down there, I was like, oh no, it doesn't at all. That like I come back to that immediately. I pulled into a gas station on my way in and I was like, oh, this is what he's talking about. I love even when you say, oh, like the difference between you say you're like, oh! 01;15;37;19 - 01;15;59;29 Unknown And I'm like, oh, it's the only difference, right? Thank you. I'll tell you which. When we went on a road trip, we kind of did this big road trip went from Minnesota, went to Tennessee to help my in-laws move, and decided to take the long way home. We went through Georgia, Alabama, spent the day at, the ocean, the Gulf of Gulf of Mexico. 01;16;00;02 - 01;16;17;26 Unknown Then we went to Louisiana, New Orleans, to the swamp tour, did like a 3 or 4 hour tour of New Orleans and then went from Texas back. So we did this in a two day time period. Oh, yeah. No, we were on our way home. The weather was so bad in Tennessee, all we were doing was staying in the house. 01;16;17;29 - 01;16;28;29 Unknown So my daughter had my youngest had never been to the ocean, so we brought it down to the Gulf. And that's where it triggered this whole thing. I'm like, well, we've never been to New Orleans, so let's do a quick, swamp tour and let's, book, 01;16;28;29 - 01;16;37;05 Unknown the quickest tour that we can get to get the most information about the area and stuff and everywhere I stopped, 01;16;37;05 - 01;16;51;10 Unknown it was like every state, the term of dial R, the term of endearment changed, the accent changed, and everybody would ask, I would say something and they're like, oh, you're from the North, aren't ya? 01;16;51;12 - 01;17;12;17 Unknown And they're like Minnesota. And they're like, you know, the way I think Minnesota or what I've heard, it's like, I know there's certain things because I grew up in northern Minnesota, that I have that strong tendency to have that, you know, not like the Fargo accent, but some things come out that way. But I don't hear it. 01;17;12;23 - 01;17;38;06 Unknown And people always, oh, say about, say, this is our, for years I had a, punk rock friend who was someone who had hopped trains and hitchhike across country. And I've had the same cell phone number since I was 15 years old. And, so he would call me in the middle of the night and I'd answer my phone. 01;17;38;08 - 01;17;56;10 Unknown I'd hear, say it, say it, and I'd say, how now, brown cow? And then like a laugh. Or when I laughed in the background and he'd hang up and I'd be like, okay, fine, like so if he's listening, you can still call that phone number. And I'll say, because I haven't talked to you in years, just on that off chance. 01;17;56;10 - 01;18;21;25 Unknown But yeah, yeah, I always say that Ohio actually has one of the strongest southern accents, do they? That I've heard. It is like I never would have imagined that. But yeah, I have never been there because you move around getting different dialects. Yeah. It is it's funny as a, as, as a writer, like you can't write a dialect, you know, so I, I observe, like I said, the terms of endearment and things like that. 01;18;21;25 - 01;18;40;14 Unknown I observed those because when you're writing someone you throw on, you know, it's like if you call someone doodlebug, they're from New Orleans or whatever, you know, it's like, that's how you have to get it across. So I'm super sensitive about the words that, that, that everyone is using. And yeah, it it changes like in in Chicago, it changes as soon as you're outside of the city. 01;18;40;17 - 01;18;47;14 Unknown It's another world. Oh yeah. It really is. And like Minnesota, I really don't think. I mean, we'll use one, 01;18;47;14 - 01;19;01;02 Unknown you know, maybe here and there hun. Yeah. We as hun. Yeah. Up here. Yes. But now that's. Yeah I mean not that much. But like you go to the gas stations and stuff like that. And when like I said when we did that tour. 01;19;01;09 - 01;19;19;00 Unknown Honey baby sweetheart, you know, like when we had a call to let the swamp tour, people know that we were running late because there was an accident. Oh, don't you worry, baby, I got you. I got, you know, and I was just like, wow, I know it really makes you feel loved and like. Right? Yeah, yeah, it does. 01;19;19;00 - 01;19;41;14 Unknown That's why I love I love New Orleans. Freaky. Same with, you know, I mean, it's I always say I feel so appreciated whenever they're, they're very, very sweet a lot. I mean, not anything southern as enemies say they got are blah, blah, blah. They talk about, you know, like the Midwest or nice or Minnesota nice or whatever. 01;19;41;14 - 01;20;02;29 Unknown And it's I mean, I feel the South has more manners than some people in our area. The other day I was holding a door open. Two people in a row held a door open, and I'm like, you're welcome. And so nothing. Just walk right on by and I'm like, you know, of if I could shut it in your face, I would, but it's too late. 01;20;02;29 - 01;20;23;20 Unknown I already opened it for you. I've just gotten to the point where I just stand at the door and wait for someone to open for me. Now it's like what I do sometimes I do because I think to myself, like, excuse me? Like, wait a minute. Why? Why what? Like I, I don't know, I expect it, I think it's polite. 01;20;23;22 - 01;20;55;12 Unknown Yeah. That's polite. Yeah, yeah. And I'm also the person who, you know, will thank my cashier and. Yeah. Oh yeah. And then I don't they'll be like oh you're welcome. I'll be like, oh you should thank me. Oh, thank you for thing you mean. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, my kids used to tease me because I, you know, I would be like, now we'd walk away and I'd be like, see, I thanked them, but as we walked away, I'd be like, but if you're ever working retail, that's your job. 01;20;55;13 - 01;21;23;04 Unknown Just remember that, because I do think we forget to take a moment and put ourselves into whatever we're doing or the people around us and, and just enjoy things. And I think, I think that's one of the reasons that a lot of us find ourselves in this hobby is that we want to have that connection, whether it be with one another as we go as a group to do it, or with the spirits that we're hoping to communicate with. 01;21;23;06 - 01;21;59;12 Unknown But I often talk about, you know, really wanting to focus on seeing people sitting with someone. We're having that opportunity. Don't think about what you're going to say next and and move on to those little different. When you're doing a podcast, you kind of have to do all of. Yeah once. Right. But but there is this, this collective space of wanting to have that moment of being seen and seeing someone else and having that deep connection. 01;21;59;14 - 01;22;23;05 Unknown And I think there's another group of people that really just want to be able to break into being the first one, to be able to prove something scientific, really. And I think there's a space for all of that. I hope there's a space for all of that. I don't think that one cancels the other one out. I think I don't think that one is superior to the other one by any means. 01;22;23;07 - 01;22;48;19 Unknown But overall, it really does come down to just even those who are trying to scientifically prove things right. I say that in quotation marks, because we don't really have the knowledge of whether or not that fully works. But even in that sense of wanting to be the first people to be able to prove something or have really good evidence, you're still hoping that you can be seen. 01;22;48;22 - 01;23;15;27 Unknown Oh for sure. Yeah. And so coming together in that no matter where we go or where we travel to, I think that ties it together really well. That that's the experience that we're, we're trying to capture and have, both with people here and with the other side and many of us have also experienced loss. That has brought us to curiosity as well. 01;23;15;29 - 01;23;46;00 Unknown Or maybe had a terrifying experience when we were younger. I, Tracy, I used to be so afraid of the dark before I started doing this. It was actually one of the reasons I jumped into doing this, because I had had terrifying experiences in the dark. So I encourage you to push through being a scaredy cat, because I really once was myself and tell you that I always tell people I am not afraid of spirits, and you should not be either. 01;23;46;03 - 01;24;06;01 Unknown And, I'm afraid of spiders in my hair and other humans because there are shitty people. And not saying that there aren't shitty spirits because there are. There absolutely are. But they're pretty few and far between. And you are strong enough to just be like, I'm not going to give you any time or energy. And that's very true. 01;24;06;01 - 01;24;26;11 Unknown And it's funny, I just had a conversation last night. We invited this woman who's, medium and and a healer to be on our show, and, she wanted to do a conversation and get to know each other first, which I thought was wonderful because, you know, a lot of times it's just you don't have that time. 01;24;26;11 - 01;24;57;28 Unknown You kind of get to know each other while you're doing the show. You don't have that hour long conversation. But she was just like, I'm sorry, I'm trying not to read you, but I just want to say I'm sorry for everything that you've gone through. And she had brought up that I grew up in a very old haunted house, and I always try to tell myself it was probably what I was, just an overactive imagination, you know, whatever. 01;24;58;01 - 01;25;27;07 Unknown But there was other witnesses and other people that experienced stuff and whatnot. And she had said, she goes, I am seen. She goes, it's not just the house. It was the property. And she goes, I am seeing eyes staring at you. And all of a sudden I was just like, it triggered. I had completely forgot. I would tell my mom every time I went to the barn to feed the horses and the pigs, that I felt like I saw eyes and something was staring at me. 01;25;27;07 - 01;25;48;01 Unknown I had completely put that in the back of my head and blocked that out until she said it and I'm like, yeah. There was eyes that I always saw and it was always know it's you've caught a reflection, you caught this or whatever. And so I told her, I shut myself off to anything paranormal. I am intrigued by it. 01;25;48;01 - 01;26;12;29 Unknown I love it, but it terrifies me. And I've been trying to be more open. Like when we were at the off house, I had to literally put my earbuds in and turn my tablet on so I would not hear anything. I was terrified of hearing something and everybody else was asleep. And I told Jeremy, I said, you are my protector and you're snoring away next to me while I'm terrified. 01;26;12;29 - 01;26;36;25 Unknown That's not cool, you know? But I'm trying to get and I've gotten better with it and more open to experience it. We also we own a cleaning business, and we have a location that has a lot of activity. And I have finally gotten to the point where I'm okay going in there by myself. Whereas before, no way, no way. 01;26;36;25 - 01;26;58;07 Unknown And I don't care if Jeremy had 104 fever. You're coming with me. You know? But now I've gotten to the point where I've said it enough times and, like, I'm just here to make this place better for you guys. Please, just let me do my work. Let me be and, I'm trying not to react to things when I see them and they happen. 01;26;58;09 - 01;27;20;00 Unknown And like I had told the medium that I had talked to you, I said I was literally walking by one of the rooms, and this black shadow in a dark room went across the floor. This just happened a few days ago and didn't say anything. I tried to debunk it. I tried walking by the window, tried to see if it was my shadow, if it if I could figure out what created it. 01;27;20;00 - 01;27;43;04 Unknown But there was nothing that would have created this black shadow moving across the floor as it did. And she's like, was you trying to debunk this? She was you're closing yourself off to it. And I'm like, well, that's what I've done my entire life. I've closed myself off to it and the other things that have happened, it's like I try to explain it, but there's things I can't explain. 01;27;43;06 - 01;28;10;10 Unknown And so I'm trying to be more open and I want to go out and do more, experiences and go and do this stuff more often. And because I would like to be able to, it's interests me so much. But I have to get past my fear. I think it's so important to just remind yourself like nothing bad has happened to you from these other I've come across, right? 01;28;10;11 - 01;28;37;01 Unknown Nothing bad has happened to you and you. Ultimately, how much you believe in yourself is the amount of boundary you can set, right? So saying like this is unacceptable for me. Putting it out there, verbalize it if you need to think about it, whatever feels like it gives you the most strength, that really helps. And then I will say, you know, I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers, but be cautious of people who have ability. 01;28;37;03 - 01;29;06;06 Unknown Or let me say this, I feel like everyone has abilities or the possibility to write, but because of people who have focused on developing their ability and see that as their identity, that tell you that you were in danger or have, you know, they read you without asking. They yes, we pick up on things, but we can we can be respectful. 01;29;06;07 - 01;29;41;09 Unknown Right. People who tell you that things are negative all the time, or this is evil, or those that feeds into the concept of like us versus them separating out something. And it does nothing but bring about destruction and breakdown of communication. So just always be cautious of that. As you know, I, I spend a lot of time as someone doing what I do, doing a lot of recovery work for people who've been scared by someone who has quote unquote, read them. 01;29;41;12 - 01;30;05;19 Unknown And it's not to say that the reader didn't have ability, but it's the reader's own perception of of what they're placing on it. And so just, you know, recognize that all I can say to you is, like everything you've shared with me so far, you haven't been harmed. No one has intentionally not. It doesn't seem like you're saying anyone has intentionally startled you if they have. 01;30;05;19 - 01;30;26;09 Unknown Like, those are the people that you need to their spirits that you need to set a boundary with. But they they try. I mean, I've had things fall like, I'll be back. You mean I'll be on the other side of a classroom and all of a sudden, just with no reason, something just look right to the ground. I mean, kids are assholes. 01;30;26;09 - 01;30;45;08 Unknown I have two children who are now adults, but like, I also have six younger siblings. And I was a kid. Wants to. We all went through that sassy, like little streak. And I say that in the most loving way of being able to say it. But really like, you know, so you are going to have them push back because they're still learning where their boundaries are. 01;30;45;10 - 01;31;13;29 Unknown If you're claiming a school room, yes. Yeah. It's that it used to be a clinic that they really bought and turned into a daycare center. And I don't think that there's anything like evil or dark there is a prankster there. There is a jokester. And I basically, like I said, I do like in my head and even out loud sometimes, just let me do my job. 01;31;14;01 - 01;31;39;14 Unknown I don't like when you do this stuff like shirts pulled, hair pulled. One night I was vacuuming and I swore I heard somebody walk up behind me and say my name, and I thought it was Jeremy. I stopped, turned the vacuum off, turned around. There was nobody there. And I was like, okay, the vacuum must have been making a noise that made me think I heard something. 01;31;39;16 - 01;32;05;23 Unknown And then as I turned back around, I got on the back of my neck and I froze, walked upstairs, got Jeremy, and I was like, we need to go outside. And he's like, you okay? I'm like, yep, we just need to go outside. I would not acknowledge it in the building, you know? And we went outside and he's like, you are white as a ghost. 01;32;05;23 - 01;32;32;06 Unknown I'm like, that's because a ghost just blew out my neck. His hands. The old man also exists on the other side. That that actually was my experience in the Palmer House was I got roped one and someone tried to climb into bed that was once a different Palmer house, though. Oh. Is it? Yeah. Yeah, there's there's a Palmer house in Minnesota. 01;32;32;09 - 01;32;54;04 Unknown Okay. And then there was also an establishment in Illinois that's. Oh really as well. So yeah. And nobody they were we were talking earlier about the one in Minnesota. Oh yeah. Yeah. We went to. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Well we both we, we had an adjoining room, Kimberly and I did. And we both felt like someone kind of gotten full handsy in bed. 01;32;54;06 - 01;33;16;09 Unknown Yeah. They got a little handsy. Nobody that would be crawling in bed with me. I mean. And I think, like, at the hard time I had with it was it's like, is this really happening? Like, did that just happen? Like, what is going on? Like, you kind of are like, you start thinking about it and you almost forget to say, hey, not cool. 01;33;16;12 - 01;33;44;15 Unknown I did not say yes. How do you know? So I had a of a funny story and it's not even ghost related with, feeling something crawling into bed with me, I one night I was home with my kids alone when they were like, one and three, my two older kids, and I'm laying in bed trying to go to sleep, and all of a sudden I feel across my feet on top of the bed, and I freaked out. 01;33;44;15 - 01;34;11;19 Unknown I kicked my feet. And then I hear this thump and like, something sliding down the wall. What in the hell just happened? And I'm Mom, so I have to put on my brave pants and look under the bed to try to figure out what just hit the wall and slid down. It was one of my hamsters that frickin escaped and crawled into bed with me. 01;34;11;22 - 01;34;38;13 Unknown You kind of talk about having a heart attack. I couldn't imagine a ghost that I can't see crawling in the bed with me. It's funny, though, but, well, you guys, I don't want to take up too much of your time. And I can't thank you enough for joining us. I am assuming that, Jeremy faded. That's why he disappeared. 01;34;38;15 - 01;35;03;14 Unknown That's all right. Yeah. The hard night would go nutty. Yeah, I yeah, it's tough when you have all that to say. I thoroughly enjoyed everything. You guys are all amazing. And I look forward to, following and hearing all of your next adventures and hearing Catherine your guys's podcast. I've been listening to it. It's been very fun. 01;35;03;16 - 01;35;34;12 Unknown You guys have a great personality. Yeah. Great. Chemistry with each other, too. Yeah. And I'm. Oh, go ahead. Catherine. No, no, I was just going to say we all need to get together sometime. Yeah, she's on podcast things. Yes. And we're all kind of in, you know, we're probably within a few hours of each other, so. Yeah, you know, have to meet somewhere and do some kind of fun, like, you know, event or go and, you know, do an investigation or something. 01;35;34;12 - 01;35;57;24 Unknown You guys can help. Is mean. And, I would love that petrified. Absolutely. And I just wanted to say also, when Catherine said that Gina was with us in spirit. Catherine. Oh, yeah. She brought a really cute famed, framed photo of Gina with her and made sure that she was with us in every room, which I really loved. 01;35;57;24 - 01;36;10;13 Unknown I loved it like I'm amazing, man. I was truly speaking of trapped spirits. I truly force her spirit to be there. Actually. 01;36;10;15 - 01;36;31;14 Unknown Great. Well thank you. We did actually call her too. Did you do you think? Yeah, I think we say I think the new FaceTime, we. I don't remember if we FaceTimed or just called, but that was right before the door closed and people started hearing voices and stuff. She. I think she may have triggered something or something, I don't know. 01;36;31;17 - 01;36;57;05 Unknown Yeah, yeah, I know with all the other pictures and stuff we did, we actually did. Yeah. Okay. Yes. The love I love the pictures, I wish I would. I'm going to have to look back at the video of the walk through, because I do not remember seeing that other stuff in that one room. And we did spend time and actually John fired up the, the old school record player and stuff while we were there. 01;36;57;08 - 01;37;21;09 Unknown Oh yeah. And so he cranked it up and had it playing, and it was really weird because I kept saying that I kept feeling vibrations. But hey, following me on it was from the record player, but not everybody was feeling it. And I'm like, no, no, when this thing is playing, I am vibrating. And I had somebody else stand where I was standing and they didn't feel it. 01;37;21;12 - 01;37;45;17 Unknown So when I was under for assist, I was in the front room, in the front living room and what I felt was almost like as if someone was stomping around on the floor in front of me, like it was that much vibration on the floor, but only while I was under the second. Yeah, I would like, you know, there was no vibration happening. 01;37;45;17 - 01;38;13;07 Unknown Everybody else was sitting in the space, everyone was sitting still. I it was like physically felt like it was shaking my body. So I think it's interesting that you say that because I just. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. Sparks that memory. Yeah. It's it's crazy how everything kind of, you know, different things come together. And I love this. I like I said, I've been obsessed with roughhouse ever since my sister brought it to my attention. 01;38;13;07 - 01;38;36;10 Unknown I had I vaguely heard the story on another podcast years ago. And so I went in, you know, both feet just diving into the investigations and all of the different investigations and the different books. And actually, I got to show you. 01;38;36;12 - 01;38;57;13 Unknown While I was doing my story, I've got this, I did order the The Possessed book, and as you can see, and it's just like, that's good, that's good, that's good. I got to look into it. I mean, I just, you know, did a little. I mean, it's all messed up. I got to order a clean copy because it's got highlights and notes. 01;38;57;13 - 01;39;25;29 Unknown And then I also downloaded, that UW Winchester. I think that was his name. The, the doctor. I downloaded that his book offline and, you know, went through and was reading that and stuff. And I mean, I went deep and I'm like, okay, I gotta stop. I got to just cut the cord and just, you know, do the story because otherwise I'm never going to get it out. 01;39;26;01 - 01;39;56;10 Unknown So it just, I got obsessed with the place almost. And the story a location that calls you back. Oh for sure. And it definitely, is so nice as the location because you can sleep there and you're there and it's not. Yeah. Stare like so many other locations are. So please, Airbnb owners who have, you know, an interesting past or haunted experiences, please, you know, start making it known. 01;39;56;10 - 01;40;20;24 Unknown Open it up. We love clean, healthy, happy, friendly places. We can go investigate well, the positive histories. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Well, guys, we'll have we'll have to share our, different things. We've got each other's email and stuff. I'll send you what we have, and then you guys send me what you have and we'll put it all together. 01;40;20;26 - 01;40;41;08 Unknown You guys are more than welcome to use anything that you feel that you can. We don't have much, but it's interesting and I'd love to hear your feedback on the few things that we did catch. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for an answer. Thank you. We go back. Thank you so much. Yes. And we will have to do something like this again. 01;40;41;11 - 01;40;48;14 Unknown Would love to hear. Sounds good. Yeah. Yes. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, thank you. Yeah I. 01;40;48;14 - 01;41;09;13 Unknown Thanks for hanging out with us here at Total Conundrum. Please make sure to check out our website and blog at Turtle conundrum.com for news, upcoming events, merch, bloopers, and additional hysteria. You never know or pop up, so be sure to follow along if you want to show your support for Total Conundrum and gain access to all of our bonus content. 01;41;09;20 - 01;41;39;15 Unknown Please visit our Patreon page. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. The links are available in our show notes. If you have any questions, comments, recommendations or stories to share, please email us at contact at. Total conundrum.com. Episodes are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. If you liked the show, please rate, review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. 01;41;39;18 - 01;41;47;10 Unknown We appreciate the love. Keep on keepin on, motherfuckers. 01;41;47;12 - 01;41;53;20 Unknown You. 01;41;53;22 - 01;41;57;26 Unknown And. 01;41;57;29 - 01;42;18;27 Unknown Now it's time to have.