00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:29 Unknown That's. 00:00:09:29 - 00:00:31:20 Unknown And higher and higher and. 00:00:31:22 - 00:00:58:16 Unknown If you dig the twisted, admired the outlandish, and are enamored by the unusual. You're in the right place. True crime, the supernatural, the unexplained. Now you're speaking our language. If you agree, join us as we dive into the darker side. You know, because it's more fun over here. Welcome to Total Conundrum. 00:00:58:18 - 00:01:10:08 Unknown One. So this first move born forward called to stop this discussion is advanced. Oh. 00:01:10:08 - 00:01:37:00 Unknown Hello, conundrum crew, and welcome back to another exciting episode of Total Conundrum. Today we are interviewing our special guest, April from Dorky Podcast. That's right. And today we're going to be talking about the ghosts of the white House. Ooh! Brace yourselves. Conundrum crew. This is one episode you won't want to miss. As always, we value your feedback. Please rate and review our podcast on Apple and Spotify. 00:01:37:05 - 00:02:01:17 Unknown Subscribe and like on YouTube. And don't forget to hit that notification bell so you never miss an episode. Your support means the world to us. If you have any story, ideas or recommendations, contact us at. Total conundrum.com, or you can find us on Instagram, Facebook or Twitter. And today we'll be sharing trailers from our podcast pals at A Call to Madness and the Suspended Sentence. 00:02:01:20 - 00:02:10:16 Unknown If you need more creepy things in your life, these podcasts will be right up your alley. Without further ado, let's jump into our episode with April. 00:02:10:16 - 00:02:12:29 Unknown We'll be back after these messages. 00:02:12:29 - 00:02:22:20 Unknown I okay. To manifest restlessness. 00:02:22:20 - 00:02:45:04 Unknown Hey, guys. I'm Tyler. I'm Thomas, and I'm Jake. And this is a call to Madison. This is a comedy show where we have no idea where these topics will take us, whether it be history, relevance between us or all around street manners. Learn with us, grow with us, and laugh with us. Every other Saturday at noon, central time on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 00:02:45:06 - 00:02:56:05 Unknown Just remember guys, you called but you only found madness. 00:02:56:07 - 00:03:10:08 Unknown Hey bro, how are you? Hello. I'm well. How are you guys? We're great. Great. Thank you so much for coming on and joining us. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. 00:03:10:10 - 00:03:39:25 Unknown We're excited too. Do you want to let all of the listeners know where they can find you? Well, sure. my podcast is called dorky. that's two words, door and key. And it's. It's a my play on the word dorky, so I love it. Because it's it's a history podcast. So it's it's very dorky, but but it's fun. 00:03:39:28 - 00:04:07:14 Unknown And, you can find that wherever you get your podcasts. and you can find it on any of the social medias all over. Wonderful. Well, it is a great podcast. Everybody go check it out and we will be on April's podcast as well. She's going to be telling us the story of the Or. She did tell us the story of the Vélez Velasco. 00:04:07:16 - 00:04:37:17 Unknown Ax murders are murders, not murders. with the same difference. so today, sticking kind of with your theme of history, I thought I would cover some of the ghosts of the white House, because what's more historic on the white House? Ooh, it sounds good, right? Yeah, that's kind of. Pull it up here. My interest is piqued. 00:04:37:20 - 00:05:03:13 Unknown Your interest is pique time. I was actually very shocked to find out how many different, ghosts there are. Do you think they'll let us go investigate that? I'm sure if they ask nicely. Why not? I'd just another. I'm sure they'd let us in the white House. No problem. Yeah, I'm sure one of the presidents would like to be interviewed, you know. 00:05:05:23 - 00:05:37:02 Unknown so I'm going to start off with, a little, quote from Harry Truman. He once joked that my choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician. Oh, my. And to tell the truth, there's hardly a difference. that is him saying that was, That sounds like something he would say. 00:05:37:04 - 00:05:41:20 Unknown Oh, totally. So was it Truman's piano that 00:05:41:20 - 00:05:42:25 Unknown the bush twins, 00:05:42:25 - 00:05:45:28 Unknown Barbara and Jenna heard in their room after 00:05:45:28 - 00:05:53:26 Unknown Father George Bush took office? Is the white House home to more than just presidents and their families? 00:05:53:28 - 00:06:22:07 Unknown I will let you decide as we go on with the story. Okay. Ooh. So in June of 1945, Truman wrote to his wife, Bess, about the life in the white House during the first two months of his term. I sit here in this old house and work on foreign affairs, read reports and work on speeches, all while listening to the ghosts walk up and down the hallway. 00:06:22:09 - 00:06:33:04 Unknown And even right in here in the study, he wrote. The floors pop, the drapes move back and forth. I can just imagine old Andy Jackson and 00:06:33:04 - 00:06:34:25 Unknown Teddy Roosevelt 00:06:34:25 - 00:06:41:17 Unknown having an argument over Franklin Roosevelt's. 00:06:41:19 - 00:06:59:19 Unknown On a lonely night in 1946, president Harry Truman went to bed at 9 p.m.. Did you say Harry? Asked Truman? If I did, it was an unintentional Freudian slip. 00:07:00:06 - 00:07:33:14 Unknown we're gonna need to bleep that one more. We don't believe there's. So about six hours later, he heard it. Knock knock knock. Who's there? The sound against his bedroom door awakened him, and he wrote to his wife in a letter that is archived in the Presidential Library and Museum. I jumped up and put on my bathrobe. Open the door and no one was there, he wrote. 00:07:33:16 - 00:07:59:12 Unknown I went out and looked up and down the hall, looked in your room, and Margie's still no one went back to bed after locking the doors. And there was footsteps in your room whose door I had left open, jumped and looked, and no one was there. The damned place is haunted. Sure, shooting Secret Service said not even a watchman was up there that hour. 00:07:59:14 - 00:08:13:04 Unknown You and Margie better come back and protect me before some of these ghosts carry me up. Wow. Well, he was a believer. Definitely. 00:08:13:08 - 00:08:18:28 Unknown So Harry Truman was pretty. No nonsense. So for him to say something like this, like 00:08:18:28 - 00:08:20:23 Unknown I am doing. 00:08:20:23 - 00:08:28:00 Unknown Yeah, I think so. Oh my goodness. Well, I do know multiple presidents have said that in the past. 00:08:28:00 - 00:08:36:05 Unknown yeah. Yeah, but I don't like I just think that Harry Truman would be 00:08:36:05 - 00:08:38:08 Unknown you wouldn't say something unless he. 00:08:38:15 - 00:08:41:10 Unknown Yeah. Like I would take what he says is 00:08:41:10 - 00:08:52:02 Unknown at least he believes it. Right. And for them to even have this letter archived in the museum and stuff, I think is pretty cool. Yeah, definitely. 00:08:52:02 - 00:09:03:28 Unknown I think so too. So he that was, some of the experiences that have happened there and then we have multiple grieving first ladies. 00:09:04:03 - 00:09:11:02 Unknown We've got Mary Todd Lincoln and Jane Pierce. Jane Pierce, the wife of Franklin Pierce, 00:09:11:02 - 00:09:30:21 Unknown she was obsessed with death and illness from a very young age. She often wrote metaphysical letters to her family members discussing mortality in the afterlife, when she suffered the tragic loss of their son, Bernie, prior to her husband's inauguration in March 1853. 00:09:30:23 - 00:09:32:13 Unknown However, she made it in 00:09:32:13 - 00:09:38:12 Unknown her mission in life to reconnect with him. The family had been traveling 00:09:38:12 - 00:09:48:21 Unknown by train in Massachusetts when the train derailed and their car was overturned. The 11 year old boy's skull was crushed. A sight Jane 00:09:48:21 - 00:09:56:02 Unknown would never recover from fully. Who could write a great couldn't a man? It's terrible. 00:09:56:09 - 00:10:23:03 Unknown Very terrible. Consumed with grief and guilt. Jane sought help of the Fox Sisters, three sisters from New York who played an important role in the development of spiritualism. Do you know about the Fox Sisters? I do. Okay. So they were, they were a big target of Harry Houdini because he wanted to out them, out them in a bad way. 00:10:23:26 - 00:10:25:09 Unknown So in fact 00:10:25:09 - 00:10:27:06 Unknown They were the pioneered ones that 00:10:27:06 - 00:10:27:28 Unknown like 00:10:27:28 - 00:10:30:00 Unknown spirit communication. 00:10:30:00 - 00:10:53:15 Unknown Leah Margaret and Kate Fox had made their career out of speaking with the dead from a very young age, through the spirits knocking or rapping on furniture and walls in response to questions. The Fox Sisters had become fairly famous by the time the First Lady called on them to perform a seance at the white House. 00:10:53:18 - 00:10:59:09 Unknown It was unusual for single women to earn their own money and 00:10:59:09 - 00:11:06:15 Unknown earn money. The Fox Sisters Shirley did in five years they presided over 00:11:06:15 - 00:11:22:19 Unknown 400 seances, whose many of them were very well documented. Not much is known about the actual white House seance, but Jane Pierce wrote to her sister that her son appeared to her in her dreams twice. 00:11:22:19 - 00:11:26:17 Unknown After that, and her soul was now calm. 00:11:26:17 - 00:11:29:00 Unknown Oh, yeah. So she, 00:11:29:00 - 00:11:33:22 Unknown you know, had some closure from them anyway, whether they were frauds or not. 00:11:33:22 - 00:11:49:28 Unknown So while it's easy to believe that we're living through exceptional times and doing so with bizarre leadership, we would not be the first to wonder what actually takes place in the white House. Take Jane Pierce, wife of Franklin Pierce. 00:11:49:28 - 00:12:03:26 Unknown their story was just kind of crazy for anybody who hasn't heard of them. Definitely look into, They were outed years later as being able to, 00:12:03:26 - 00:12:10:15 Unknown crack the joints in their feet is how they were making these knocking noises. 00:12:10:17 - 00:12:27:03 Unknown Yeah, very, very strange. But they finally stopped doing it. But they were huge in the spiritualism world. All right. So now we're going to touch a little bit on Mary Todd Lincoln. Okay. 00:12:27:03 - 00:12:45:07 Unknown So Jane Pierce had shared the story of her successful seance with the Fox Sisters with Mary Todd Lincoln. Mary was a controversial figure in Washington from day one of her husband's presidency, prone to wild fits of overspending. 00:12:45:09 - 00:12:50:25 Unknown She once purchased 400 pairs of gloves in a single month. 00:12:50:25 - 00:13:24:01 Unknown What? Hey, would you need 400 pairs of gloves for maybe she's planning on moving to Minnesota. Still, that's more than one pair a day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she also undertook the, the complete redecoration of the white House using federal funds, a decision that was, kind of unpopular during the Civil War, when I'm sure many citizens were suffering personal losses and struggling to provide for their families. 00:13:24:04 - 00:13:27:13 Unknown Miss Mary's, buying enough gloves to, 00:13:27:13 - 00:13:53:22 Unknown fed a small town. Maybe. Maybe she was planning on donating em or something. that would be nice, right? In February 1862, Mary Todd Todd Lincoln, son Willie died from typhoid at 11 years old. I just couldn't imagine growing up in those in that time frame. It was people were just having kids and 00:13:53:22 - 00:13:58:16 Unknown by the dozens because they weren't guaranteed to have any of them survive. 00:13:58:18 - 00:14:23:22 Unknown Yeah, it's it's so sad. It is very sad. It just I couldn't imagine. And you just look back and all these histories and stuff, and even my great grandparents, they had ten children, and I believe they had two, two that died at infancy. One was a stillborn and one died as an infant. And that was still in, you know, that was in the 1900s, still. 00:14:23:22 - 00:14:45:22 Unknown Well, feel free to cut this if this cuts into your story. But, but Calvin Coolidge, he had a son who got a splinter or got a blister on his foot, and the blister got infected and died from from that. Well, that was like in the early 1800s. Like it's so sad. It's just like, 00:14:45:22 - 00:14:47:08 Unknown no, I didn't. Yeah. 00:14:47:08 - 00:14:53:27 Unknown Yeah. I didn't have that in here. That's very interesting. And you would think of something as simple as a splinter. 00:14:53:27 - 00:14:58:09 Unknown Yeah, but Easter. Yeah, yeah. A blister. Sorry. 00:14:58:09 - 00:15:10:15 Unknown you would think that, you know, antibiotics probably weren't very prevalent back then either. So. No, they they didn't have antibiotics until the world, the Second World War. So 00:15:10:15 - 00:15:12:09 Unknown if you got sick like that, 00:15:12:09 - 00:15:14:23 Unknown you're pretty much. 00:15:14:25 - 00:15:35:03 Unknown It's really sad. That is sad. Yeah. So Mary was met with very little sympathy for the death of her son, as so many young people were dying in the Civil War at the time, and the public blamed her husband. Even Mary's family were cold, 00:15:35:03 - 00:15:45:28 Unknown and many were Confederate sympathizers. Like Jane Pierce. Mary called on the services of the well known spiritualists like Cranston Laurie. 00:15:45:28 - 00:16:04:14 Unknown also a high ranking employee of the US Postal Service, young Nettie Colburn Maynard and other identified on the record only as the. I'm gonna butcher this the Colchester Colchester of Georgetown to conduct, 00:16:04:14 - 00:16:20:19 Unknown these so-called calls to the dead in the white house red room. Mary is said to have been taken by the young spiritualist Nettie Colburn Maynard, that she secured a furlough for her brother 00:16:20:19 - 00:16:24:29 Unknown as well as a job for Nettie as a clerk at the Department of Agriculture. 00:16:25:01 - 00:16:35:23 Unknown So basically, she wanted to have this seance done so much that she's started like, patting pockets a little bit there. 00:16:35:23 - 00:16:47:12 Unknown Wow. Yeah. So she was desperate for Nettie to remain remain in Washington, and she asked Nettie to perform a seance in the present presence of the president. 00:16:47:12 - 00:17:00:20 Unknown Mary believed that she was speaking to her son, and that after the silence, he comes to me every night, and he stands at the foot of my bed with the same sweet, adorable smile he's always had. 00:17:00:22 - 00:17:30:07 Unknown She wrote that to her sister. Oh, so very, very, obsessed. Which I mean, I would. I've never lost a child and could not imagine ever losing one either, but, I mean, she was like, using presidential things to keep the spiritualist around. Yeah. Makes me cry. I have so much. Go ahead. 00:17:30:07 - 00:17:32:29 Unknown I have so much sympathy for Mary Todd Lincoln. 00:17:32:29 - 00:17:46:01 Unknown Like she lost children, and then later on, she would lose her husband. Like, so much loss. Oh, definitely a lot of loss. And that for her tragic loss too. Yes. 00:17:46:01 - 00:18:00:21 Unknown Yeah. So the next ghost we are going to cover is Abigail Adams. Ghost is well known to the white House staff and residents. Her ghost appears in times when the white House is going through crisis. 00:18:00:23 - 00:18:06:29 Unknown However, the first reported sighting of her ghost was during the Taft administration under 00:18:06:29 - 00:18:12:02 Unknown relatively normal circumstances. President Taft said, 00:18:12:09 - 00:18:24:14 Unknown President Taft is said to have forbidden his staff from speaking about the incident. The more recent sightings of Abigail's ghosts have been related to, 00:18:24:14 - 00:18:32:13 Unknown helicopter incidences at the white House, 1 in 1974 and the other in 1994. 00:18:32:13 - 00:18:46:24 Unknown the first incident, a stolen helicopter, was brought to the white House in a breach of security that resulted in no injuries. On that same day, several staff and residents of the white House claimed that they had seen the ghost of 00:18:46:24 - 00:18:48:14 Unknown Abigail Adams. 00:18:48:14 - 00:18:51:24 Unknown Security had been stepped up at the white House after this 00:18:51:24 - 00:18:52:24 Unknown Incident. 00:18:52:27 - 00:19:03:12 Unknown However, this didn't stop another such incident occurring 20 years later, this time killing the pilot of the helicopter when he attempted 00:19:03:12 - 00:19:08:16 Unknown to land on the white House grounds without authorization 00:19:08:16 - 00:19:13:21 Unknown On this day, emergency personnel claimed to have seen a woman 00:19:13:21 - 00:19:22:02 Unknown that matched Abigail Adams description leading the emergency effort to bring the situation under control. 00:19:22:04 - 00:19:48:20 Unknown No one has been able to identify this woman or where she came from. So the popular belief now is that it was the ghost of Abigail Adams that had materialized that day. Due to the abnormal circumstances the white House had encountered. Hmhm she felt that the woman needed to get the man's job done. Can I just say that I really love Abigail Adams? 00:19:48:20 - 00:19:58:29 Unknown Yeah. If I was going to be haunted, I would want to be haunted by her. Like, I don't know if you guys have seen the HBO series, John Adams. 00:19:58:29 - 00:20:00:07 Unknown No, but 00:20:00:07 - 00:20:06:19 Unknown it's really good. And Laura Linney plays Abigail Adams, and so that's what I'm picturing in my head. And 00:20:06:19 - 00:20:15:04 Unknown yeah, I would I would be okay with being haunted by by Abigail Adams as well as, like, a really neat Chemical Adams. 00:20:15:06 - 00:20:36:00 Unknown Yeah. Just making sure that everything is, the way it's supposed to be. And they're protected. And aside from her acting as the guardian angel of the white House, she also is been seen keeping up with the laundry duties. One night. Yeah. Oh. That's handy. Yeah. 00:20:36:00 - 00:20:40:08 Unknown So, yeah, she, is often spotted, 00:20:40:08 - 00:20:42:26 Unknown carrying around, wash, 00:20:42:26 - 00:20:45:13 Unknown hanging it up to dry in the east room. 00:20:45:15 - 00:20:55:08 Unknown So not outside, but it is the laundry, like transparent two or. I'm not sure. Yeah. Question the question, I wonder. 00:20:55:08 - 00:21:00:03 Unknown You disappeared for a minute. You were gone, 00:21:00:03 - 00:21:07:09 Unknown Sorry about that. I don't know what happened. I guess it was the ghost. Layton. Yeah. Was Abigail, 00:21:07:09 - 00:21:14:17 Unknown their laundry or is she doing her. Oh, yeah. Oh, laundry floating down the hallway. yeah. 00:21:14:20 - 00:21:36:12 Unknown That would be kind of handy to have a ghost just do your laundry for you, wouldn't it? Oh, and it does say in here in my notes, too, that people have seen, an apparition moving around with its arms outstretched in front, as if carrying a load of laundry. And they've also smelt the sense of wet laundry or lavender. 00:21:36:12 - 00:21:43:00 Unknown So I guess the laundry is invisible. But why would Karen's be doing the laundry 00:21:43:00 - 00:22:04:23 Unknown backwards? Okay, that's I'm assuming they did that. I mean, don't they do then? Yeah. Service back then. oh. That's awesome I love it. And just those, those random scents popping up too, you know, they're laundry does have a certain scent. 00:22:04:25 - 00:22:19:04 Unknown And, yeah, that is kind of kind of cool. So now we're going to move on to Honest Abe Abraham Lincoln. Oh. Oh, yeah. So Abraham 00:22:19:04 - 00:22:27:03 Unknown Lincoln is a frequent presence in the white House with presidents, first ladies and even foreign visitors 00:22:27:03 - 00:22:27:23 Unknown that claim to 00:22:27:23 - 00:22:27:29 Unknown have 00:22:27:29 - 00:22:31:14 Unknown come across his specter in the white House. 00:22:31:17 - 00:22:57:00 Unknown He is known to haunt the Lincoln Bedroom, even though he never slept in that bedroom during his time in the white House. The one famous encounter occurred when Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands was staying at the white House. She reportedly heard a knock on her door and upon opening, saw the ghost of Abraham Lincoln wearing his top hat. 00:22:57:03 - 00:23:05:14 Unknown The sight of him caused the Queen to faint out of sight. She got, 00:23:05:14 - 00:23:12:03 Unknown Other residents have reported hearing footsteps of the president inside the white House while 00:23:12:03 - 00:23:29:15 Unknown Eleanor Roosevelt reported feeling his presence when she worked late at night in the Lincoln Bedroom, and that had been converted into her study. I'm curious and why it's called the Lincoln Bedroom if he never even slept in that bedroom. 00:23:29:15 - 00:23:38:27 Unknown That's a good question. I know, very strange that I don't either. Yeah, whatever. He never slept in it. No, it's said that, 00:23:38:27 - 00:23:50:27 Unknown she reportedly. Or where was it appear he is known to haunt the Lincoln Bedroom, even though he never slept in there during his time in the white House? So why is it called his bedroom? 00:23:51:12 - 00:23:55:21 Unknown Good question. let's see. 00:23:55:21 - 00:24:17:09 Unknown President Franklin D Roosevelt, his valet once ran screaming from the white House after seeing Lincoln's ghost. Well, anybody probably would, because, I mean, I think the dude was like six five. And then the ad, another two feet tall that I'd run to, 00:24:17:09 - 00:24:27:10 Unknown Lady Bird Johnson also claimed to have felt his presence one evening as she sat in the white House watching a documentary on his death. 00:24:27:12 - 00:24:30:25 Unknown First lady Grace Coolidge actually saw the 00:24:30:25 - 00:24:39:08 Unknown his apparition looking out from the window of the Oval Office towards the Potomac and beyond. 00:24:39:08 - 00:24:42:08 Unknown so so go ahead. 00:24:42:08 - 00:25:01:18 Unknown Oh, I just I did some research. I googled, and it looks like, they call it the Lincoln Bedroom because Harry Truman directed that Lincoln era furnishings be assembled there. So they took stuff from Lincoln's time and put it in that room and called it the Lincoln Room. 00:25:01:20 - 00:25:11:29 Unknown Okay. That's. Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't even Google. Yeah. Google rocks. Yes it does. 00:25:11:29 - 00:25:38:22 Unknown ghost of President Lincoln also made frequent appearances during the administration of President Franklin D Roosevelt, when the country was going through the Great Depression. In one embarrassing incident, a nude Winston Churchill, the British prime Minister, once emerged from the bathroom to see Lincoln sitting in his room during his visit in the 1940s. 00:25:38:25 - 00:25:54:24 Unknown Churchill always quick on the uptake, simply took his cigar out of his mouth, tap the ash off the end of his cigar and said, good evening, Mr. President. You seem to have me at a disadvantage. 00:25:54:26 - 00:26:18:20 Unknown Lincoln softly smiled as if laughing, and then disappeared. I only hope to be as quick witted as Winston Churchill, right? I just loved that. Just simply a cigar out tapped. And you seem to have caught me at a disadvantage. 00:26:18:23 - 00:26:36:28 Unknown Oh, that was great. Ronald Reagan's dog, Rex, is believed to have also seen Lincoln's ghost. Apparently, the dog would regularly stand at the door to Lincoln's bedroom and bark, and the president believed that Rex could see Lincoln 00:26:36:28 - 00:26:43:12 Unknown at a 1986 state dinner, Reagan told guests that Rex had barked at the entrance, 00:26:43:12 - 00:26:49:14 Unknown he would always sit and bark at the entrance of the Lincoln Bedroom, but he refused to go inside. 00:26:49:16 - 00:26:56:04 Unknown Reagan's daughter and son in law also reported seeing ghostly figures in that bedroom. 00:26:56:04 - 00:26:58:08 Unknown so, then, 00:26:58:08 - 00:27:02:18 Unknown Jeremiah Jerry Smith started working at the white House during the 00:27:02:18 - 00:27:06:20 Unknown Ulysses S Grant administration. And the late 00:27:06:20 - 00:27:15:07 Unknown 1860s as a footman and served as a footman, Butler, cook, doorman, an official. 00:27:15:07 - 00:27:17:05 Unknown an official duster. 00:27:17:07 - 00:27:52:20 Unknown Not 100% sure what that is. Feather duster. He just dusted the white House. He stuck his head over a million fans in. so he worked there until his retirement. so he was there for approximately 35 years. Oh, he's. He was a popular character. And story tellers and reporters could always count on Smith on his slow news day, he claimed to have seen the ghosts of Lincoln, Grant, McKinley and other A several other First Ladies. 00:27:52:22 - 00:27:54:15 Unknown Wow. And, 00:27:54:15 - 00:28:06:25 Unknown there's also in current times, there's a lot of spotting of him sitting in a chair at the top of the stairs in the white House, kind of just looking over everything, 00:28:06:25 - 00:28:18:02 Unknown Yeah. So I have my favorite one out of that was the Winston Churchill one. I guess that's one way to get more than two terms, 00:28:18:04 - 00:28:41:21 Unknown Yeah. Just. There we go. Yeah, right. You can reside there forever. I mean, otherwise, why would it be haunted? I mean, none of them have died there, right? No, I, I don't believe so. They they just they don't want to give up their jobs. They come back, but. Well, I take that back. Willie Lincoln may have passed there. 00:28:41:23 - 00:28:51:19 Unknown Oh, his son. Okay. But, as of the other actual presidents, I don't know if anybody has. Do you? 00:28:51:25 - 00:29:00:26 Unknown Put presidents past in the white I. I don't think so. Maybe FDR. Okay, but he 00:29:00:26 - 00:29:14:21 Unknown I don't know if he was there or if he was away when he, when he died. I, I think most of the presidents that have died in office were away from I don't think any of them were in the white House when they died. 00:29:14:24 - 00:29:20:28 Unknown Well, I mean, Abe Lincoln for sure. Yeah, he was at the Ford Theater, was. Yes. 00:29:20:28 - 00:29:21:19 Unknown Yeah. 00:29:21:19 - 00:29:27:07 Unknown Do you guys have, Apple TV or you watching that manhunt show? and, you 00:29:27:07 - 00:29:37:16 Unknown know, Apple TV is one that we don't have. We have pretty much everything else. It's about the the hunt for John Wilkes Booth after he assassinates Lincoln. 00:29:37:16 - 00:30:07:00 Unknown So they chase him through the through the area, and it's it's pretty good there. It sounds interesting. I might have to add another, subscription to our ever growing list. Yeah, sure. Our kids won't complain. They they seem to really enjoy all of our subscriptions. Yes, they do. None of them live here, but, yeah. Well, the next ghost we're going to cover on is Willie Lincoln. 00:30:07:00 - 00:30:09:06 Unknown We'll be back after these messages. 00:30:09:06 - 00:30:31:28 Unknown This is Tracy. This is Samantha. This is the suspended sentence. Grab your latte and join us as we enter season two. Starting January 1st of 2024, a year packed full of serial killers that you may or may not have ever heard of. Thanks for being there. Stay safe. 00:30:32:17 - 00:30:53:07 Unknown President Abraham Lincoln is not the only Lincoln that's said to be haunting the white House grounds. His son, Willie Lincoln's spirit often makes appearances to the fright of many, very often, Lincoln president Lincoln had four sons Robert, Edward, William, and Tad. 00:30:53:07 - 00:30:53:26 Unknown Out of his 00:30:53:26 - 00:30:55:06 Unknown four sons, 00:30:55:06 - 00:31:01:25 Unknown only Robert lived on. After his father's assassination, Edward died in infancy. 00:31:01:25 - 00:31:07:23 Unknown From what is believed to be tuberculosis, and Willie was born that same year on December 00:31:07:23 - 00:31:16:12 Unknown 21st, 1850, during President Lincoln's first term in office, two of his sons, Willie and Tad Boswell, 00:31:16:12 - 00:31:35:19 Unknown ill from typhoid fever. While it's had recovered from the illness. Willie passed away at the tender age of 11 at the white House. Yeah. President Lincoln and his wife Mary, were grief stricken at his death, and it's reported that President Lincoln cried 00:31:35:19 - 00:31:39:02 Unknown all the time for his young son. 00:31:39:04 - 00:31:46:18 Unknown He said, oh, I'm sure I would be, too. I would be a wreck. And especially losing multiple, 00:31:46:18 - 00:31:59:26 Unknown Willie was temporarily buried on the white House grounds as his body. Then his body was later exhumed to join his father in Oak Ridge Cemetery in Springfield, Illinois. Should have remembered that. We could have made a pit stop there. 00:31:59:26 - 00:32:22:01 Unknown Jeremy. Ray. Yeah, we were just in Illinois last weekend. I'm not a history, right? You know. Well, I wrote the story a couple months ago, so a lot of it's it's like reliving it again. See, from now, we'll just call Brian. She can tell us where to go. Right. It's our history guru. 00:32:22:01 - 00:32:26:06 Unknown Well, it's. I actually have an episode about Oakfield Cemetery. 00:32:27:26 - 00:32:39:19 Unknown Lincoln's. They tried to steal Lincoln's remains from it. Really? Like these? Yes. These people. And there was, like, a whole. It was a whole thing. Yeah. And 00:32:40:01 - 00:32:40:17 Unknown they 00:32:40:17 - 00:32:41:04 Unknown never 00:32:41:04 - 00:32:42:03 Unknown stole the 00:32:42:03 - 00:32:44:09 Unknown the body, but they, 00:32:44:09 - 00:32:53:00 Unknown they reburied Lincoln, like, in a different spot in the same tomb, but just in a hidden spot in the tomb, so that. 00:32:53:00 - 00:33:19:10 Unknown And then years later, Robert asked that his father's body be put back where it belongs. So it was. But they kept the people that hid the body first. They kept it a secret and never told where it was until after they moved. So it's a sad story, but it's kind of a good story at the same time. Like they prevented his body from being stolen. 00:33:19:12 - 00:33:50:28 Unknown Well, when we were in Illinois, this past weekend, we made a pit stop at Resurrection Cemetery and. Okay, and what is it Juliet Joliet said. Yeah. and we also went over across the street to Chad's Melody lounge because I don't know if you're familiar with the story of resurrection, Mary. she's supposedly a hitchhiking ghost and in that area, but I was in, in that cemetery. 00:33:50:28 - 00:34:22:09 Unknown It was beautiful. And it's. Yeah, we only covered a small little section of it, and. But those the, tombstones and stuff are so elaborate and gorgeous and detailed and all of the mausoleums. And I've never been in a cemetery like that. It was beautiful. Yeah. And unfortunately for anybody that wants to know, Mary is no longer in that cemetery. 00:34:22:09 - 00:34:49:29 Unknown Well, and that's I kind of question that, though, because. Which Mary are they talking about? Right. Are they talking about the young girl? And yes, she was reburied in that other cemetery. But if Mary Biglerville actually is in an unmarked grave, so nobody would have been able to, to, you know, to damage her tombstone. So there's like 3 or 4 different Marys that it could be. 00:34:49:29 - 00:35:23:08 Unknown So, yeah, the the bartender told us that they moved her. They moved Mary. So because they were damaging her tombstone. But which Mary's. Well then the name of the graveyard actually changed too, except for on the main gate. I was wondering, is that two? Do you think it's two separate? No, it's one place. But they changed. I noticed on the side it was said one thing, but on the word the, the main gate that you go into actually says Resurrection Cemetery. 00:35:23:10 - 00:35:47:12 Unknown And they removed the gates that were supposedly bent. Yeah. By the spirit of resurrection. Mary. Yeah. Okay. So they try to keep it on the DL, I guess the, the it was really fun to just go there and, you know, like Chad's, was it that place was literally just a little dive bar. It was cool. You know. 00:35:47:13 - 00:35:58:03 Unknown Least it was still there. It was still there. Yeah. That's cool. Oh, Henry. Ballroom. That. That's really. Yeah. That changed to Willowbrook and that's gone. Yeah. 00:35:58:03 - 00:36:13:09 Unknown then we also pit stopped and went to where the murder Castle used to be. Haunted homes. Yes. That is a scary part of, So, yeah, that's a rough neighborhood. Yes. 00:36:13:12 - 00:36:33:01 Unknown Very rough neighborhood. But, yeah, we went where the building used to stand and, like, took pictures of the post office. That's on part of the way the post office was closed. It was a Sunday, so. So we could go in there, but. So that was kind of fun. So we'll have to pit stops in Illinois. Yeah. For sure. 00:36:33:05 - 00:36:37:25 Unknown My sister lives there, so it's a good, place for us to venture. 00:36:37:25 - 00:36:41:01 Unknown so getting back to this, 00:36:41:01 - 00:36:57:15 Unknown Willy's spirit was seen again in 1870 during the Grant administration. And even as recent as the 1960s, when, Lyndon B Johnson's daughter Linda saw the ghosts and talked with him. 00:36:57:15 - 00:37:02:12 Unknown and then there is speculation of, 00:37:02:12 - 00:37:06:07 Unknown a ghost that they called the thing the thing. 00:37:06:07 - 00:37:26:09 Unknown The thing. oh, yeah. Numerous reports from staff and residents at the white House claimed to have encountered the green and lives in the swamp. that's pretty. The the swamp thing? Yeah. 00:37:26:09 - 00:37:28:02 Unknown so they're, 00:37:28:02 - 00:37:42:07 Unknown claim to have encountered the ghost of a young boy about 14 or 15 years of age. The earliest reported sighting of this mysterious ghost was during President Taft's administration. 00:37:42:10 - 00:37:44:07 Unknown Taft's military aid. 00:37:44:07 - 00:37:59:22 Unknown major Archibald, I'm just waiting for Jeremy to go here. Major ulcer. But I can't miss him or or Archie. Major Archie. But. 00:37:59:24 - 00:38:10:26 Unknown Yes, I said, but, he wrote to his sister Clara. The ghost, it seems, is a young boy, about 14 or 15 years old. 00:38:10:26 - 00:38:27:24 Unknown They say that the first knowledge one has of the president's presence of the thing is a slight pressure on the shoulder, as if someone were leaning over your shoulder to see what you might be doing. 00:38:27:24 - 00:39:03:03 Unknown President have ordered, but to tell the white House staff that the first member to repeat the stories about the thing would be fired. So Taft was very receptive to this. he didn't want to know, but I think I mean, Willy was, what, 11, 12 years old? so is it Willy? Oh. Or possible. Yeah. So we just got the thing because that's cooler with it. 00:39:05:28 - 00:39:20:15 Unknown and Bob Walker brings up, Slimer. Is it because, Oh. what are you gonna call Ghostbusters? 00:39:20:17 - 00:39:26:06 Unknown One member of the white House domestic staff claims to have actually seen the thing. 00:39:26:06 - 00:39:45:16 Unknown Not just felt his presence. She described it as a boy of 14 or 15 with unkept hair and blue eyes and the thing and Willy Lincoln booth both had blue eyes. But whether they are one in the same, it remains a mystery today. 00:39:45:18 - 00:39:48:09 Unknown So I think Tracy nailed it. Oh yeah. 00:39:48:09 - 00:40:03:09 Unknown As mentioned earlier, the reports of encounters with the thing at the white House occurred during Taft's administration, and he just did not want anybody to know anything about it. Wow. 00:40:03:09 - 00:40:05:00 Unknown he was a strict one. 00:40:05:00 - 00:40:07:03 Unknown He was. 00:40:07:03 - 00:40:12:13 Unknown Or he didn't want people to think he was crazy. 00:40:12:23 - 00:40:24:16 Unknown we're just going to briefly go over a few others. I couldn't find much information on these, so just little tidbits here and there. Andrew Jackson, supposedly. 00:40:24:16 - 00:40:41:20 Unknown Isn't there like, a story about Clinton seeing ghosts or the the Bush, twins have been interviewed many times about hearing and seeing things. and actually I watched a couple of their interviews. They were on, 00:40:41:20 - 00:40:48:09 Unknown Kelly Clarkson Show and I think Ellen two. They talked about the different things that happened while they were there. 00:40:48:09 - 00:41:05:29 Unknown I think Chelsea Clinton also experienced stuff there I couldn't find. It was crazy. I thought I'd be able to find a lot more information than I did, but it was all. Pretty much every site was repeated. Everything was just repeated of what I've already told. Okay, 00:41:05:29 - 00:41:07:10 Unknown so Mary Lincoln, as 00:41:07:10 - 00:41:08:23 Unknown claimed to hear, 00:41:08:23 - 00:41:13:12 Unknown Andrew Jackson stomping and swearing and, 00:41:13:12 - 00:41:31:03 Unknown supposedly there was somebody spotted him lying in his bed in the Queen's bedroom, the rose room, and he lets out a guttural laugh. And that laugh has been heard since the 1860s. Dig these ghosts. Now go there. 00:41:31:03 - 00:41:33:01 Unknown Dolley Madison is, 00:41:33:01 - 00:41:38:03 Unknown is suspected that she protects the Rose garden at one point. 00:41:38:03 - 00:41:58:25 Unknown I don't in my notes, but at one point, one of the presidents was trying to move the rose garden, and her spirit started being seen everywhere. hail. No, you're not moving that body. They didn't. They not having it? Nope. Dolly was not having it yet. 00:41:58:25 - 00:42:02:05 Unknown John Tyler haunts the blue room. 00:42:02:05 - 00:42:04:27 Unknown and let's see, it's no thought. 00:42:04:27 - 00:42:32:01 Unknown That's William Henry Harrison haunts the addict. he. Oh, he was the first president to die in the white House. Okay, there we go. Okay, so again, like I said, I apologize. I wrote the story a couple months ago, so this is like. I'll, like, learning it all over again for me. there is also supposedly a ghost of an unknown or an unnamed British soldier. 00:42:32:12 - 00:42:38:04 Unknown he perished during the war in 1812, and he roams the white House grounds holding a torch. 00:42:38:04 - 00:43:00:01 Unknown a soldier? Yeah, in the white House? Yeah. I'm not sure. Okay. but, David Burns owns the land on which the white House now stands. Or he owned the land. he has been seen and heard in the Yellow Oval Room. 00:43:01:05 - 00:43:06:25 Unknown and Anna Serrat. Anna Serrat bangs on the doors of the white House, 00:43:06:25 - 00:43:15:09 Unknown Pleading to see the to see President Andrew Johnson. She was there to beg for a pardon for her mother. 00:43:15:09 - 00:43:16:02 Unknown Lincoln's 00:43:16:02 - 00:43:21:22 Unknown assassin Nation conspirator, Mary Surratt. Oh, 00:43:21:22 - 00:43:24:19 Unknown okay. Oh, yeah. 00:43:24:19 - 00:43:36:04 Unknown so then, just to wrap up with, a few more current occurrences, the daughter of President George W Bush, Jenna, and Barbara. 00:43:36:04 - 00:43:37:14 Unknown they, 00:43:37:14 - 00:43:41:28 Unknown like I said, they have heard, like, piano playing, like, coming through 00:43:41:28 - 00:43:50:13 Unknown their fireplace in their bedroom. They had seen apparitions and heard voices and stuff. 00:43:50:13 - 00:44:05:11 Unknown she said that they knew that if any place was haunting, it would be that house. But they did try to rationalize it. Jenna wrote that in her 2017 memoir with Barbara, Sisters First. 00:44:05:11 - 00:44:29:05 Unknown when white House butler Buddy Carter asked the girls how they slept, they told them about the mysterious singing and music that they heard, and he said, oh, Miss Jenna, I believe you. You wouldn't believe what I have seen and heard over the years, but he hasn't told me any ghost stories yet. But I keep hoping she wrote who? 00:44:29:08 - 00:44:39:29 Unknown And First Lady Michelle Obama said that she and President Barrack once heard noises coming from the hallway outside of their room. 00:44:39:29 - 00:44:58:14 Unknown she said the family members have also felt odd sensations, as if someone was nine at their feet. Perhaps the ghost of a white House pet. I was like, nine at your feet. What are you, Sparky? What are you. 00:44:58:16 - 00:45:00:06 Unknown Wow. Oh, 00:45:00:06 - 00:45:25:10 Unknown but that is what I have for the ghosts of the white House. That was awesome. That was so fun. We're still kind of disappointed that there was no Clinton stuff in there, though, because I swear we're on TV talking about it back in, like, the 90s. It could be. I mean, I like I said, I was struggling to 00:45:25:10 - 00:45:28:08 Unknown find anything. 00:45:28:08 - 00:45:48:28 Unknown everything was pretty much I not even been the view. It could the bed. I don't I feel like I have a memory of something about the Clintons seeing a ghost. I can't remember, but but it's definitely ringing the bell. But I think it's really interesting. Like they say that 00:45:48:28 - 00:45:58:07 Unknown hauntings happened because there's been a lot of a lot of emotion or the person doesn't feel like they're there, done with what they wanted to do. 00:45:58:09 - 00:46:20:20 Unknown And all the people that you mentioned had super strong personalities were very pivotal in history. And it's like I could see them being ghosts, like I could see Abigail Adams, I could see Abraham Lincoln. I see, oh yeah, he ain't going, you know. Oh, no, I mean, he 00:46:20:20 - 00:46:28:03 Unknown definitely was not ready to go anywhere. I mean, he was right on the cusp of it and just had everything taken away from him. 00:46:28:03 - 00:46:43:23 Unknown So for me, I can definitely see his spirit, you know, standing his ground. Now this is what term would he be on right now? Oh my, 800 term. 00:46:43:23 - 00:46:54:20 Unknown So yeah, it was a lot of fun going through and reading all these different things and, you know, and having some of those presidents actually, 00:46:54:20 - 00:47:04:04 Unknown say that that's what they encountered when then you got to know anybody who talks about this fire. 00:47:04:06 - 00:47:06:20 Unknown You're going to get those. Oh yeah. 00:47:06:20 - 00:47:20:11 Unknown the non, believers or the ones that, are worried about what people think is more like it, I guess. But yeah. So did you have anything else to add to it or. 00:47:20:11 - 00:47:28:24 Unknown No, I just I, I could definitely see any of those people you mentioned being ghosts. I really can. 00:47:28:26 - 00:47:45:15 Unknown It makes sense. It's so fun so far I love the, the the Rose garden part two, where they tried to move it and then all of a sudden, boom! But see, you're not moving on it. That's mine. That's staying right where it's at. 00:47:45:15 - 00:47:52:20 Unknown And that even makes sense because she was the one that saved, like George Washington's portrait. 00:47:52:23 - 00:48:11:07 Unknown She, like, got rid of a lot of this. Like, she removed a lot of the stuff from the white House when the British came during the War of 1812 and it burned it, and so I could see her sticking around it, like, protect it. You know, as your British soldier, soldier. Jeremy, I was trying to figure out. Yeah, yeah, there you go. 00:48:11:08 - 00:48:35:13 Unknown That's. I suppose he maybe died on the ground and or cut off or maybe he had his business there. He decided that maybe he just wanted to hang out with, Lincoln. so. hang out with them. Oh, totally. I think I could, you imagine. Could you imagine just sitting down and having conversation with some of these people from. 00:48:35:22 - 00:49:07:26 Unknown A lot of our city, a lot of our history is. Well, it's like my great grandfather, he lived such a life and he used to tell stories, and he lived until he was 100 years old. And my grandpa and my grandpa sister died, and he was still alive and well. He died two months later. He was like, I did not live my life. 00:49:07:29 - 00:49:34:20 Unknown I didn't want to live this long if I'm going to start burying my children. And then literally two months later, he passed. But he would tell stories and stories and and to think of all of the things that in his time frame, all of the changes. So yeah. Yeah. Yes. I mean, no, the phone, the electricity, the indoor plumbing, you know. 00:49:34:20 - 00:49:56:26 Unknown But you know what? At our age, we can start saying that now too. Yes we can. Oh, I know, home PC, I mean, yeah, yeah, we're old. We're not old. Yes. No, we're not old yet. Internet. Come on. Internet. Hello? 00:49:56:29 - 00:50:42:11 Unknown Oh, it's. Yeah. Life before internet. Life before cell phones. Yeah, yeah. there's that song I remember. Yes. Well, even the song I laugh about every time I hear it. Here's a quarter. Call someone who cares. There's going to be a day when. When nobody knows what that song was talking about. yeah. It's like I was watching the movie Reality Bites, and there's like, this whole scene, this whole montage of Winona Ryder talking to a phone psychic, and she, you know, she brings up the phone bill, raises it really high because she's on the foot, but it's like she's laying on the couch, you know, with her head back, like talking. 00:50:42:11 - 00:50:52:14 Unknown And that wouldn't happen. No, no. You know, I got in trouble for a few phone bills in my younger days. 00:50:52:16 - 00:50:58:28 Unknown And I went, yeah, just about. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. 00:50:58:28 - 00:51:20:24 Unknown But I mean, it used to be you couldn't even call the town next to, you know, without having a long distance. Yeah, I remember was exactly party lines where you could have multiple people on. Yeah. We were cool, man. Yeah. Stretching that phone cord as long as it could go and get into an area, see through phones. 00:51:20:27 - 00:51:51:03 Unknown I loved my seafood phone. That cool? Yeah. Yeah. That's, the see through pagers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. yeah. There was like a whole period there where everything was transparent, you know? Yeah. I just saw somebody posted, toys of the 80s and there was a man, Chichi. I forgot about the Monte cheese. The little monkey. Do you your. 00:51:51:06 - 00:52:26:22 Unknown Do you remember them? I do know they were like little monkeys toys. I mean, they were like a stuffed toy. But I remember the monkey that went like that. Yeah. He was cool. I think he might have been like a 70s toy. that. Hey, how'd it go again? Yeah. No. Do the monkey. Monkey, I love it. 00:52:26:25 - 00:52:52:19 Unknown Well, April, we can't thank you enough for joining us today. And, we've had a fun afternoon with you doing these collabs, and we'll definitely have to, do something again in the future. It was a lot of fun. Kind of mixing the two the history, the true crime, the the ghosty stuff, all kind of together. It was a fun little, you know, collab. 00:52:52:19 - 00:53:21:05 Unknown It was a blast. Yeah. This has been so much fun. I really appreciate you guys having me. Thank you so much. Do you want to let us know again once more where where we where everybody can find you? the podcast is called Door Key. It's two words, door and key. And, it's on every other platforms. anywhere you can stream a podcast, it's there. 00:53:21:20 - 00:53:38:14 Unknown you can find me anywhere on any of the social media sites, as, Well, yeah. Jeremy, do you want to help us? Should we, wrap up the episode? Let's wrap it up. All right, all right. 00:53:38:14 - 00:53:45:14 Unknown Are you going to do the ending? Oh, you want me to start? Yeah. Oh, I start, All right, 00:53:45:14 - 00:53:51:29 Unknown Well, that's a wrap on another thrilling episode of Total Conundrum. Thank you, April, for collaborating with us. 00:53:51:29 - 00:54:06:28 Unknown Thank you for having me, love. Thanks. Thanks for joining us. 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