00:00:09:29 - 00:00:58:16 Unknown And if you dig the twisted, admired the outlandish and are enamored by the unusual, you're in the right place. True crime, the supernatural, the unexplained. Now you're speaking her language. If you agree. Join us as we dive into the darker side. You know, because it's more fun over here. Welcome to Total Conundrum. 00:00:58:18 - 00:01:10:08 Unknown When she was first moved on the phone call to stop this disclosure, she passed. 00:01:10:08 - 00:01:25:11 Unknown Hey, welcome back to another thrilling episode of Total Conundrum. Your favorite duo, Mystery Mavens, is here to tickle your curiosity with another deep dive into the unknown. That's right, folks. And today, we're embarking on a journey 00:01:25:11 - 00:01:35:04 Unknown that's not only mysterious, but incredibly important. We have the privilege of hosting a remarkable guest who's fighting for justice in the shadows. 00:01:35:04 - 00:01:42:08 Unknown Joining us is the incredible Sergio from Voices behind Bars. She's a tireless advocate for those wrongfully imprisoned. 00:01:42:08 - 00:01:46:29 Unknown Shining a light on the injustices they face and giving them a voice in the darkness. 00:01:46:29 - 00:02:03:12 Unknown SARA His work is truly inspiring. And we're honored to have her here with us today will be delving into the heartbreaking reality of innocent people incarcerated, discussing the challenges they endure and how we can support their fight for freedom. 00:02:03:17 - 00:02:13:12 Unknown But before we dive in, folks, a quick reminder to all the conundrum crew out there. Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe to total Conundrum on all your favorite podcast platforms 00:02:13:12 - 00:02:14:15 Unknown and keep an eye out 00:02:14:15 - 00:02:19:20 Unknown because we'll be featuring trailers from our friends over at Dreamland Fruit and Afrocentric. 00:02:19:20 - 00:02:25:03 Unknown That's right. So hit those buttons, ring those bars and join the adventure. 00:02:25:05 - 00:02:30:07 Unknown Now, let's give a warm welcome to Sara and get this conversation started. 00:02:30:07 - 00:02:32:20 Unknown We'll be back after these messages. 00:02:32:20 - 00:03:15:17 Unknown Hello, my spooky friends. This is your host, John from Dairyland Fry, the paranormal podcast that covers everything spooky, creepy and mysterious in the Midwest. Hi, this is actually John. I hope my spooky voice scared you. And in this podcast, we're going to have creepy gas and spooky tales and mysterious sightings of Cryptids, UFOs, ghost and everything. Paranormal. So tune in if you dare to be scared. 00:03:15:17 - 00:03:45:19 Unknown Hey, everybody. We have a special guest today. We have Sarah Diamond. Did I say that right? You did great. I was worried about that. You're from Voiceless behind bars. And Sarah, can you tell us a little bit about what your what you advocate for and how we can find you? Hi, my name is Sarah Diamond by nonprofit is Voices Behind Bars. 00:03:45:20 - 00:04:10:19 Unknown You can find it at Voices Behind Bars dot org. And I also run my own podcasts named after my nonprofit Voiceless Behind Bars, which is down by person audio. And you can find that on most streaming platforms. And I advocate mostly for the wrongfully convicted, but I also advocate against the inhumane treatment of prisoners, the inhumane prison conditions. 00:04:10:22 - 00:04:39:29 Unknown I advocate against the death penalty. And I also speak out against the way the correctional officers treat the prisoners and all. I really want to see the prison system as it is completely abolished, rebuilt. And also talk about people who are overly sentenced. Like one of my friends, Sharon Edwards, was sentenced to 20 years federal prison. Now he's doing 20 years in state prison for a minor crime. 00:04:40:01 - 00:05:07:17 Unknown So really, just the whole legal system, but the heart and soul. It's wrongful convictions, right? For instance, like the sex offenders that get just a few years and somebody will get a minor drug offense and they'll get 15 years. Exactly. Yeah. That's the whole system is just blows my mind completely. So I'm assuming with your accent, you must be from the South? 00:05:07:20 - 00:05:33:21 Unknown Yes, I'm from Alabama. I love it. I don't know if you saw the little snippet video that Jeremy and I just did. We had John from Dairyland, Fried San, and we did Deadwood, South Dakota, which is like where the Wild West was really rampant and stuff. So we were doing our little pretend cowboy accents to takeover very well. 00:05:33:22 - 00:06:06:23 Unknown But it was fun trying. I love the Southern accent, totally love it. So I know in following your stuff and talking with you that you have a case in Minnesota. Correct. And that's. Is it Timothy Magruder? That's him. Jeffrey Magruder. Yeah. Okay. And then I know there was one that you posted recently about somebody getting assaulted while they were in prison. 00:06:06:23 - 00:06:11:29 Unknown And that was absolutely appalling because nobody 00:06:11:29 - 00:06:37:20 Unknown they just stood around. He was on the ground, he was attacked and they didn't do anything. And his name was incorrect in the system as well. They changed his name. yeah. Kevin Billingsley. Yes, I remember I posted the video of him being assaulted and they changed his name to Karen Rogers and Kevin Billingsley. 00:06:37:24 - 00:07:00:10 Unknown Kevin Billingsley is his legal name, but no one was exist in the state of Ohio. He's. They changed it to Kevin Rogers, and he's under there under a name that doesn't belong to him. He was wrongfully convicted. And like you said, I got the video footage from the prison, posted it, And like I said, they were just standing there. 00:07:00:10 - 00:07:01:25 Unknown He had a broken Joel 00:07:01:25 - 00:07:27:29 Unknown and I could not believe that video. It was definitely for actual facility. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Go to her page and check out that video. It's I was just tongue tied. I'm just speechless because I couldn't even believe what had happened. But so we're going to get into some questions here and then we'll go more into Timothy's case and stuff like that. 00:07:27:29 - 00:07:51:18 Unknown Since I feel it's a good one, since we're from Minnesota as well. So he'll probably be familiar with some of the locations and stuff that usually in the story. You know, it's not it's not a story, I guess it's a real life real life thing, but. NAMER Yeah, real life nightmare. So what inspired you to become an advocate for the innocent individuals in prison? 00:07:51:20 - 00:07:58:07 Unknown Well, 2020 was a big year for all of us. And yeah, what happened was, 00:07:58:07 - 00:08:17:20 Unknown you know, sitting at home, I was keep my eyes open more and more about police brutality. And I will admit, seeing George Floyd, what happened to him? I, I knew evil existed, new monsters existed that I, especially as a white person, had never encountered such evil in my life. 00:08:17:22 - 00:08:25:28 Unknown Well, and in Minnesota, having all of that happened here was just. Holy shit. Yeah, no doubt. 00:08:25:28 - 00:08:47:11 Unknown Yeah. And I was trying to make sense of what I saw for two days. And after two days I thought, you know something? Enough. It's time to act. And so that's why you're posting more online about, you know, Black Lives Matter police brutality, you know, all talking about, okay, this is who you need to contact when you see this. 00:08:47:12 - 00:09:15:17 Unknown All because I so all of us working together, we make changes. So a friend of mine tagged me in a video about all it was that all upcoming wrongful execution of a man named Bruce Payne. Fortunately, he's still with us. But I knew wrongful convictions, SAP and wrongful executions happened. I just realized how much, Right? How often? One out of every nine wrong are people who are executed are innocent. 00:09:15:19 - 00:09:19:21 Unknown Two people a day at least are wrongfully convicted. 00:09:19:21 - 00:09:35:13 Unknown And I didn't know that at the time. So we're going down that rabbit hole. One out of nine are innocent and two. Yep. We just lost this man. All your 28. I read on your posts. Yeah, 00:09:35:13 - 00:09:37:20 Unknown that's crazy. 00:09:37:20 - 00:09:41:27 Unknown So much for going down the rabbit hole. And it was like 2021. 00:09:41:27 - 00:09:46:09 Unknown I found out about Timothy, Minnesota, and all my friends on 00:09:46:09 - 00:09:53:24 Unknown Wow. Yeah. I did not realize the stats were that scary. 00:09:53:24 - 00:10:09:22 Unknown So you kind of touched on this a little bit already, but do you want to give us some more information on Timothy's case and how it impacted you and motivated you to pursue this this type of work? 00:10:09:25 - 00:10:34:08 Unknown Absolutely. it was like I said, that we are 2021. My video about Sharon had gone viral. And to this one, Terrance, wonderful man, had reached out to me and he will be the one that. Yes, he said, Excuse me, miss, would you mind looking into my father's case to the Greater Saint Paul, Minnesota? And he said he just wants to be heard. 00:10:34:10 - 00:11:04:15 Unknown And I froze that. I just looked at that sentence and I thought, How many people are in prison right now? Who are uncertain? They're not being listened to? I just look at that sentence and I said to him, okay, just I'll I'll look into it. And I saw reading into it and I saw that right away that three men, Teran, Greg and Malique, had all been wanted for ten years by the feds for cocaine trafficking. 00:11:04:17 - 00:11:32:14 Unknown Are they arrested? And they first were saying anything. And then Jeff Paulson, who was the federal prosecutor at the time, this was 2001. we said, okay, well, there was a horrible murder. Very heartbreaking. In 1986 of a four year old girl, a gang shot up a car named Coke Gas station. it was in Saint Paul. And then they thought a rival gang was in there. 00:11:32:14 - 00:12:00:18 Unknown It was it Karpel children, four children. This girl had her life taken and the case went cold. And so Jeff Paulson, the feds said, okay, if you can tell us who committed this crime, we will give you plead guilty, will not serve life in prison. And I thought, plea deals. Okay, that's something special here. And so that's when they started naming Timothy, his co-defendants. 00:12:00:19 - 00:12:13:15 Unknown I started looking more into it. Saul. Evidence was just hearsay evidence. I mean, there was no evidence at all. It was just relied on the testimony alone of Sharon, Greg and Malik. That was it 00:12:13:15 - 00:12:25:27 Unknown And I saw any witnesses they had were related to all trauma and Greg, their brothers, and they couldn't even identify Timothy at the scene of the crime. 00:12:26:00 - 00:12:52:29 Unknown So I relate that information. What I could find to Jared. And I said, am I correct? You said, Yeah, you're correct. And I said, okay, well, let me take this on. And as over the years as I'd gotten deeper into it, I found out this man was not railroaded. This was very politically driven. Keith Ellison was his process was this public defender and ah, Keith Ellison. 00:12:53:05 - 00:13:22:07 Unknown All right. 30 minutes late, first day of trial, which should have been allowed, but when he did, he missed the opportunity to challenge Jeff Paulsen when he admitted to the judge that he had arrested Timothy and the other two without federal jurisdiction, he never charged them for anything. Again, legal judge let it slide when he shouldn't have because the only way to connect them to the crime was to connect them to the drug conspiracy. 00:13:22:09 - 00:13:48:11 Unknown Wasn't able to. He referenced the drugs, but never charged them with the drug conspiracy. And so I call it Jeff. Paul. Excuse me. Keep it Ellison's office last year and I make sure to be polite to you and made sure that I was polite. But. but I asked for an affidavit that he was 39 and 30 minutes late, therefore missing his opportunity to get a chance. 00:13:48:11 - 00:14:21:14 Unknown Jeff Paulson He said no. And a secretary said to me, well, he could have challenged him at any time. And I was shocked. She admitted to me, I couldn't believe she admitted that to me. Right. And to that he had an alibi. He was with his cousin, Kevin. Kevin should be on my podcast soon. But the night that horrible crime was committed, Kevin was by his side the entire night he testified and Jeff Paulson was known for going after gang members. 00:14:21:16 - 00:14:46:15 Unknown Mr. Tough on crime. Okay. And he knew the jury would not question him if he called Kevin a gang member. Kevin was not a gang member. He was never really a gang, but he knew the jury would not question him. And Timothy's looking at Keith like, Are you going to say something? He said nothing. And so there what Any credibility Kevin had. 00:14:46:15 - 00:15:04:23 Unknown He was telling the truth that in fact, kind of frustrated Jeff that he couldn't, you know, poke holes or anything. But Kevin just remained calm because he knew he was telling the truth. But so but like I said, there just everything was shot after that. And they were all 00:15:04:23 - 00:15:09:03 Unknown wrongfully convicted. So the other two men didn't do it either. 00:15:09:03 - 00:15:12:03 Unknown But, so Timothy's been in 00:15:12:03 - 00:15:19:07 Unknown federal prison for 23 years. He's in McCreary now. That's one of the more federal prisons out there. 00:15:19:07 - 00:15:30:26 Unknown Where does that one at? That's in Pine, not Kentucky. Okay, well, he's been transferred out of Minnesota. Yeah, the transfer. All them. okay. 00:15:30:26 - 00:15:31:23 Unknown Wow. 00:15:31:23 - 00:15:42:12 Unknown As I say, that one didn't sound familiar. I mean, the biggest ones that I know of in Minnesota are the the Faribault Prison and the Saint Cloud Prison. 00:15:42:14 - 00:15:48:08 Unknown And the Fair Belt and Saint Cloud didn't, Jeremy wasn't from 00:15:48:08 - 00:15:55:00 Unknown a Katie player store story, wasn't Donald. yeah, it was. Wasn't he in both of them? 00:15:55:00 - 00:16:07:26 Unknown I'm not sure. I can't remember. Now. All the stories start to blend together after a while. Unfortunately, there's just so much wrong in all of them. This reminds me a lot. 00:16:07:26 - 00:16:42:03 Unknown I've heard a lot of podcasts on the what, West Memphis Three and, what those guys went through. They were young guys. The one was mentally challenged that they questioned that basically got them all convicted and the case still isn't solved. And but luckily, I think all three of them are out now, But they had to take a what is that plea? 00:16:42:05 - 00:16:44:05 Unknown I can't think of what it's called now. 00:16:44:05 - 00:16:52:24 Unknown Basically, you're still saying you're guilty, but you're getting out of prison release. Nah, not a compassionate release. It's some. 00:16:52:24 - 00:17:03:14 Unknown But I'm familiar with what you're told. I can't think of what it's called now. my gosh. It'll pop in my head at 2:00 in the morning when I flew over here. 00:17:03:16 - 00:17:30:10 Unknown What is it? Well, I'll think of it, but yeah, it's basically where you take a plea deal that you are still pleading that you are guilty, but you get out on. It's like a loophole, basically. Yeah, but So what are some common challenges faced by innocent individuals who have been wrongfully convicted? 00:17:30:10 - 00:17:31:18 Unknown So 00:17:31:18 - 00:17:39:20 Unknown common ones are all what for one thing, what it comes to the witnesses a lot of times are either of they are 00:17:39:20 - 00:17:40:17 Unknown being 00:17:40:17 - 00:17:45:18 Unknown coaxed into testifying by the police, the prosecutor. 00:17:45:25 - 00:18:16:11 Unknown They make plea deals or they just simply don't remember very well. another thing is that all prosecutors will plant evidence or withhold evidence that would have exonerated the person that they're all trying to wrongfully convict. another thing, honestly, is race all and is that black man is seven times more likely to be wrongfully convicted of murder than a guilty white man. 00:18:16:13 - 00:18:37:04 Unknown another thing that they face is once they're wrongfully convicted in prison, this regardless, race, gender, what's there in prison, it's it's extremely hard to get out even if you have all the evidence, the DNA evidence, it's extremely hard to get out. And usually you have to find a technicality in your case, 00:18:37:04 - 00:18:44:01 Unknown one, to be able to get your appeals done and to get your case heard or, you know, stuff like that. 00:18:44:01 - 00:19:06:15 Unknown It's not an easy task. Jeremy was just doing research in a case and he was looking into like the parole hearings and stuff like that and sometimes those parole hearings. What did you say that can take up to a couple of years, Jeremy, before they even get the parole hearing? You which I had no idea. I thought they were just something that was scheduled. 00:19:06:15 - 00:19:17:16 Unknown But even though you're scheduled for it, it could still take a few years to have it happen and which I was unaware of. I don't I don't know a lot about the legal system. I'm pretty. 00:19:17:16 - 00:19:32:03 Unknown Yeah, me too. I've learned a lot doing this Alford plea. That's what it's called. It just popped into my head has scored all of the yes the Alford plea is what it's called 00:19:32:03 - 00:19:38:03 Unknown but no I just I really have learned a lot in doing this podcast and listening to podcasts. 00:19:38:03 - 00:20:04:14 Unknown And it's just it's a lot of it just blows my mind and a lot of these cases, it's like sometimes you'll get the cops were on it and they did an amazing job. They couldn't have done it any better. And other times it's like, What the hell are you doing? Are you sitting there with your thumbs up your ass or, you know, I know I don't get ads. 00:20:04:17 - 00:20:11:03 Unknown It's like the day at the donut shop. I could have solved the case better myself, not having any experience 00:20:11:03 - 00:20:25:15 Unknown and just the way that sometimes it's just, you know, the accusations. And the other thing that I learned recently that I did not know is that witnesses that are of a different race, 00:20:25:15 - 00:20:32:16 Unknown people have a hard time identifying outside of somebody outside of their race. 00:20:32:18 - 00:20:45:21 Unknown Yeah. And I never realized there had I was listening to something and they were talking about the just statistics of successfully identifying somebody that is not of your same race and very low, 00:20:45:21 - 00:20:48:19 Unknown which I thought was very interesting. 00:20:48:19 - 00:20:58:09 Unknown yeah. One of the witnesses in this case who was related to Toronto and Greg described a black man with cornrows. 00:20:58:12 - 00:21:04:05 Unknown He does not have cornrows. He's bald. wow. Here's a big oops. 00:21:04:05 - 00:21:14:17 Unknown And I mean, she describes the one look just look completely different from him and. she was even asked, was this the person that you saw? And she said, 00:21:14:17 - 00:21:15:28 Unknown can't answer that. 00:21:15:28 - 00:21:21:09 Unknown well, at least she didn't say, you know, give them a definite answer. You know, 00:21:21:09 - 00:21:24:19 Unknown gave him the benefit of the doubt and not identify, don't fit. 00:21:24:19 - 00:21:35:18 Unknown You must acquit. my gosh. All the witnesses have pointed to someone else on the scene. They were getting a photo lineup. So the suspects, they all point to someone else that they're missing. 00:21:35:18 - 00:21:36:20 Unknown Wow. 00:21:36:20 - 00:21:46:23 Unknown Just blows my mind. And he has a solid alibi as well, right? Wasn't he at, like, a family dinner with multiple people or something? 00:21:46:28 - 00:22:08:25 Unknown He was at his aunt's house. His cousin was by his side. Kevin, the entire night. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin, Like I say, supposed to go on my podcast soon. He and I have talked about it, and I asked Kevin, what was your reaction when Jeff also called you a gang member? And he said, We're surprised because he's like, I, I never was affiliated with a gang. 00:22:09:01 - 00:22:27:29 Unknown Never. And I said to him that Timothy had told me that the family made sure he never got caught up in, that they were very active of them and all. I asked him, how surprised were you when Timothy was convicted? He said, Very much so, because everyone knew he didn't do it. I mean, of course, the prosecutor knew that. 00:22:28:03 - 00:22:33:18 Unknown They all knew he didn't do it. So that that was the last thing I thought was going to happen. Wow. 00:22:33:18 - 00:22:38:10 Unknown That just blows my mind. It's the thing that blows my mind is that 00:22:38:10 - 00:22:48:20 Unknown so he's basically everybody knows that he's innocent, but yet he'd still be sitting in prison for years after the fact. Well, it took like the West Memphis Three. 00:22:48:20 - 00:23:04:11 Unknown It I think it took almost 20 years for them to get out as well. Why would it take so long? Just going through and proving everything. And a lot of times they didn't. When did the Innocence Project come into play? 00:23:04:11 - 00:23:13:24 Unknown That's more of a recent thing, isn't it? What is this project I'm trying to say? I think it may have been in the late eighties. 00:23:13:24 - 00:23:18:05 Unknown It came back okay. Yes, This project I'm 00:23:18:05 - 00:23:40:22 Unknown I'm kind of mad about because, yes, they have done some good things, but they also will take a lot of cases and those people owe that to Kevin. yeah. And a lot of times they'll say with the case, Well, we need DNA proof and a lot of cases don't have DNA proof at all. 00:23:40:25 - 00:24:01:03 Unknown Timothy doesn't have an issue, I suppose, because it was the little girl was shot from afar, right? Unfortunately. But yeah, with the West Memphis Three, there was no they they did not find any of their DNA. They found DNA on the little boys that were murdered. 00:24:01:03 - 00:24:07:06 Unknown But it was not any of the three that were convicted either. And again, that was a 00:24:07:06 - 00:24:13:14 Unknown southern town as well. That that. Yeah, in Memphis, Tennessee. So 00:24:13:14 - 00:24:40:04 Unknown and sometimes you get into some I know that sometimes the southern politics like look at the what's this face so that you just did a story on recently Jeremy North Carolina boy my mind is shot today or I've seen sort of politics on day one I think that's North Carolina South Carolina. 00:24:40:06 - 00:25:11:27 Unknown The lawyer Murdoch. Yes, Murdoch. Look at how that memory completely took over everything in that town. Boy, I definitely have Saturday Brain today. All right. Yeah. I don't think. Am innocent. No, but look at everything that they got away with for so long. Yeah, it's it's. It blows my mind sometimes. So let's see. Next question. 00:25:11:27 - 00:25:19:01 Unknown how do you identify and prior prioritize cases of potential wrongful convictions? 00:25:19:04 - 00:25:53:29 Unknown That's a good question. So whenever someone comes to me about a case, I'll I do hear them out. I do ask a lot of questions like, okay, so why do you think you were targeted? And I will ask you all, so why did this person testify against you? And I will also ask, okay, can I see any transcripts or do you have other people who can vouch for you and anyone who was, you know, innocent and didn't do it? 00:25:54:01 - 00:26:25:01 Unknown Say yes to anything you say to me, you know, Yeah, whatever you need I can send to you. I can I have someone to vouch for me. They can just all know most of the time they can answer the question. You know, I this is why this person turns against me. There are occasions where they truly don't know what Gary Drunkard, a survivor of Alabama's death row who's innocent on here, truly does not know why or turn to get some. 00:26:25:01 - 00:27:08:25 Unknown But most of the time they they do know. But it's a bunch of I don't know. It's one thing to have like one or two, but but another thing like, I don't know. I don't know my interest groups that I have anyone who could vouch for me, they start out and I, you know, just asking questions like, well, what do you know about the police officers motive behind targeting you at all like all this sometimes, like I'm not condoning what the police were doing, but sometimes if someone has a few run ins for like, that's an easy target, Again, not condoning them, but it's just a bunch of I don't know, I don't 00:27:08:25 - 00:27:32:16 Unknown know or if it's they're trying to dodge the subject like, okay, I need to see the I need to look up. I get information, but so you get this take place in what prison are you were in are either they start to get standoffish or their parents will not answer. Or I once had a woman going a bunch of I'm not sure. 00:27:32:16 - 00:28:01:08 Unknown I'm like, I'm okay. I'm not a magician here. So that's when I weed out people. I guess. So it doesn't happen all the time, but on occasion, how hard is it to get the paperwork and stuff that you need from the different areas, the courts, the prisons that, a lot paperwork is readily available online. Like, it's not like transcripts of like that. 00:28:01:08 - 00:28:27:28 Unknown That's public information. Like all two of these transcripts are from this court case. That's public information that's on my nonprofit's website. So a lot of that I can all look up, just have an account with like the government all forgetting the name of it, but like, of, like federal courts just have gotten with them. You can upload that all. 00:28:28:01 - 00:29:00:02 Unknown But there are, I think, a couple of things like if someone wrote the affidavit, then you would need, some. So and then I'm advocating for like, okay, can you be a copy of that and send that to me right now? But yeah, all transcripts I can, yeah, look it up online. But as far as all, yeah. When it comes to like I said, when it came to Timothy, people who just filed for they were ready to talk to me and that's usually the case. 00:29:00:02 - 00:29:28:08 Unknown People are ready to talk to me. and anything that's not already available online and, like all the government, you know, does normally send to the inmate. So hopefully they can make a copy and send it to me. So in like recent case, more recent cases now they have police all her body cam footage and stuff like that. 00:29:28:08 - 00:30:04:29 Unknown And so that's something that's easy to get copies of because I know a lot of times even watching news stories, they'll be like, Well, we finally got the body cam footage or, you know, that's been very difficult. They're not very kind about that. Like, even though this case was a while ago, there is still some camera footage from that time and they aren't all it has to do with a gang meeting went all planning out that shoot out that he was not part of but it would be nice to get that video footage. 00:30:04:29 - 00:30:39:21 Unknown But police won't release that. And like I said, be nice to get it. But it's not the first time I've run into trouble with them where I'm asking for body cam footage and surveillance footage. Now, I'm sure it's you got to get through those loopholes and it's probably have to all the right people. Yeah, exactly. You know, the right people or have the right credentials or which I know even some lawyers have trouble with getting what so we can recruit Anonymous. 00:30:39:23 - 00:31:05:27 Unknown There you go. Right? Yeah. Yeah. We did a case that they were involved in and they blew my mind with it. I was, I had never heard of them before that case, and I had heard of it, but I wasn't really familiar with what they did. And after the case that I covered, it was just it blew my mind. 00:31:05:27 - 00:31:37:02 Unknown And what they were able to do, the control that they had. So yeah, maybe just start taking them. Hashtag Anonymous. So total conundrum, Sanjay. I'm sure they got an email address out there somewhere. Can you walk us through the process of advocating for someone who claims to be innocent after being convicted? absolutely. After I talked to the why after several times. 00:31:37:02 - 00:32:01:16 Unknown And I'll if I can talk to any family members, you know, after all that, I will start making a couple of videos. I'll ask you, do you have a petition? Sometimes I'll make a petition. L That's a good way to get people's attention. Sign this petition all because it just takes a moment and a third time. And so that, like I said, is a good way to get people on board. 00:32:01:18 - 00:32:30:17 Unknown And so and making a video, I try not to make it too long because I don't want to, again, lose people's attention. and just, you know, in the beginning hit the high notes as I get deeper into it, start getting all deeper into the story and now they've had my podcast for nearly two years. I'm like, okay, we need get you on the podcast soon so people will hear from your mouth right? 00:32:30:19 - 00:33:06:00 Unknown Because I mean, who better to explain the case than you? and that makes a pretty significant impact as well, including when, like I can get their family members on their arm, that also makes a pretty big impact. I had them and sometimes even after like I had a one man doctor, Chris Brown, whose father, Gary Brown, was executed, I had him on my podcast just so people can hear about, look, the death penalty has a lot of consequences even years later. 00:33:06:02 - 00:33:32:02 Unknown So I'm getting it. But I realized with Timothy, even before my podcast, I had help video work for him and I talking it to my pen viewers, my Instagram, because I'm like people need to hear from you, right? I'm like, No one can explain this better than you. So that's one of the most important things. My advocacy is people hearing from the wrongfully convicted person themselves, their family members. 00:33:32:02 - 00:33:45:17 Unknown And sometimes I go to rallies. I went to a rally yesterday in Atlanta and advocated for Timothy. It's all on my social media and I'm going to be hitting small rallies soon. 00:33:45:17 - 00:33:54:16 Unknown Well, that's good. Well, in social media is a huge conduit to of getting the word out there because, I mean, 00:33:54:16 - 00:34:00:21 Unknown I don't remember how we became how we ended up following each other on Instagram. 00:34:00:23 - 00:34:32:02 Unknown But a bunch of the people in the group that I associate with, like we do trailer trades and we've done collabs and stuff together. But when you posted that video of Kevin, one of the podcasts that we follow and I work with pretty closely, the suspended sentence is now going to be interval. I don't know if they've done it yet or not, but, or have posted it yet or not, but they're going to be interviewing Kevin from prison, right? 00:34:32:02 - 00:34:58:29 Unknown So, I mean, it definitely helps social media definitely helps get the word out there and spreads it. It's it's kind of crazy. It's like wildfire. Yeah, in a way. And so I'm really glad that the cases that you are talking about and the ones that you're fighting for and advocating for are getting, you know, the attention that they need to be getting. 00:34:59:02 - 00:35:27:02 Unknown And, you know, it's it's hard when you got Brazil, even if they are part of like the Innocence Project or what you're going through, you still have the people, the nonbelievers that will give you the the brunt of, you know, how do you know? And we'll give you all the, you know, the negative feedback and stuff. So being positive all the time is got to be very hard. 00:35:27:02 - 00:35:37:13 Unknown But you do a very good job of it. And your videos, you make them entertaining and us, which is wonderful. You do a wonderful job of what you're doing. 00:35:37:13 - 00:35:47:18 Unknown I, I really. Yeah. I mean, you do. You have a lot of fun with that. I mean, even if it's something as trying to think of one of your recent ones, but you're just you'll have you won't even say anything. 00:35:47:18 - 00:35:56:14 Unknown You just have words about you that you point to and the words you know, and then you just simple. But it gets the point across. You know, 00:35:56:14 - 00:36:13:17 Unknown I do like sound effects music because it helps get people's attention. Definitely. That's something we're still learning, is trying to get the difference, you know, what's going to attract people's attention, what's going to be what are people going to want to share? 00:36:13:17 - 00:36:39:20 Unknown What's going to, you know, attract somebody to listen to an episode? And and that's that's we're still pretty new to it. I mean, we're we got pretty lights then we did we have pretty fast. Now we have video. We're getting up there. So you get to see all of our dumb expression ends. But yeah, it's you know, it's it's the whole social media thing. 00:36:39:20 - 00:37:03:16 Unknown Will and I wasn't even on Instagram or we weren't even on Instagram probably for the first four months of our podcast because I, my kids used Instagram. I didn't, you know, I'd post things, I'd share it from Facebook or whatever, like our episodes and whatnot. And we were struggling to get followers on Facebook. And I'm like, What is going on? 00:37:03:19 - 00:37:31:17 Unknown And then I got introduced to how Instagram is so great for podcasting and just the probably four or five months that we've been out there, we're already at our most I think we're just shy like two shy of a thousand. That's great. Yeah. And I love it. And Twitter and Jeremy's been handling that, giving that up there, and I started doing it. 00:37:31:17 - 00:37:43:28 Unknown Tik Tok I don't understand Tik Tok. I've been posting videos like that we do on Insta and stuff, but we got to get better at doing our own little fun little reels. But 00:37:43:28 - 00:37:57:16 Unknown life is so busy it gets hard. Busy. So what support and resources do you provide to individuals who have been wrongfully convicted? Though? 00:37:57:16 - 00:38:06:10 Unknown So what I do for them is I say, okay, well, I'm going first off, I told you, I'm going to get your information out there. 00:38:06:12 - 00:38:35:16 Unknown I'm going to get people all I need to make the public aware. I need to get them to care. It takes a village. And I also encourage the public to vote. I'm like, we need to get the right people in office or else we're not going to get any work done right. And every vote does matter. Absolutely. And so I so I tell them, I got to get your name out there or I need to get your voice out there. 00:38:35:16 - 00:39:07:01 Unknown And as we start working together, I start reaching out. Sometimes I, you know, reach out to different podcasts. Like Timothy himself has done some interviews now and so have some other people I've advocated for. And if like, if they're able to do an interview, absolutely. I want them to be heard, too. And I'll also try to see if anyone like all can either provide assistance. 00:39:07:01 - 00:39:15:15 Unknown Like I'll tell you, he's got some paralegals. This case I was I'll see if I need volunteers like from a university 00:39:15:15 - 00:39:31:21 Unknown who are staying low can help out and I will also all talk to all different websites, get the word out about their case so I can offer them first and foremost, word of mouth. See if anybody can 00:39:31:21 - 00:39:39:21 Unknown get interested in the case, hopefully pick it up and also hopefully get donations to my site, which will help them in return. 00:39:39:23 - 00:39:52:21 Unknown Right. So you said like Timothy has done interviews and stuff. Are they allowed like an undetermined time on the phone as long I'm assuming whomever is interviewing him 00:39:52:21 - 00:39:54:27 Unknown We'll be back after these messages. 00:39:54:27 - 00:40:18:02 Unknown Are you tired of seeing the world through a whitewashed or Eurocentric lens? Do you want to learn how to view the world from a more black point of view? Then check out Afrocentric. The Park is that explores the importance of an Afrocentric gaze while navigating white spaces. Posted by Morgan Gray, each episode features thought provoking conversations on black culture like respect as well as the black experience. 00:40:18:02 - 00:40:41:15 Unknown Because here we understand that black lives are not a monolithic experience, and there is more than one way to view this. Our goal is always to educate, discuss and inform black Americans about the borders of evolving past their perspectives through an Afrocentric lens. Subscribe to African today on your favorite podcast platform and join the conversation on social media using hashtag Afrocentric. 00:40:41:18 - 00:40:44:29 Unknown That's how to you guys. Bye by. 00:40:44:29 - 00:40:52:23 Unknown is paying the collect is that they still do that collect call charges or whatever. Timothy pays for the minutes. 00:40:52:23 - 00:40:58:07 Unknown but yet the inmate pays for the minutes. But they have like only so many minutes at a time. 00:40:58:08 - 00:41:15:09 Unknown So, you know, so like when I have like, okay, I got to call you back. I have heard. Yeah. I wondered how that worked because I wasn't sure if they had to do it in different sessions or if they could do it consecutively or 00:41:15:09 - 00:41:20:00 Unknown but well, it's, you know, and I think they have. Jeremy was just saying that. 00:41:20:03 - 00:41:31:05 Unknown Didn't you find out that there was somebody that was in prison that has a podcast? Yep. yeah. Yeah. That text from the Manson family. 00:41:31:05 - 00:41:36:05 Unknown that's right. Yeah. He's got his own podcast. It's it's like love, 00:41:36:05 - 00:42:02:15 Unknown love learning or something. Podcast. Well, well and then, you know, we did a case on that was sort of south South America, South Africa and the guys that brutally raped and murdered this woman had access to like Facebook and porn sites and all sorts of stuff. 00:42:02:15 - 00:42:13:24 Unknown And I was like, What? And now these guys are released. They should have never they left this woman for dead and by an act of a miracle, 00:42:13:24 - 00:42:28:01 Unknown she's I mean, she had her intestines were outside of her body. Her neck was slashed so much that she couldn't even the the muscles were slashed. So she couldn't even use the muscles to hold her head up. 00:42:28:03 - 00:42:30:28 Unknown And she made her way to the road 00:42:30:28 - 00:42:50:00 Unknown and was found by somebody who was going to school to be a veterinarian technician. And but they released this guys this year. I'm like, What the hell? And then you've got innocent people that are in prison and I could get out. Yeah, 00:42:50:00 - 00:42:57:15 Unknown Yeah. One man I'm advocate for Jessie Drake, you good friend of mine who submitted the evidence that proves that he didn't do it. 00:42:57:18 - 00:43:03:04 Unknown He's got the medical records, I think proves he didn't do it. He's still having trouble getting released. 00:43:03:04 - 00:43:19:28 Unknown And even when they do overturn the convictions, it can still be years. That's hard to understand. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah. Even when they finally determine that they are innocent or they do the Alford plea or whatever, 00:43:19:28 - 00:43:23:00 Unknown it would still take them years to get out. 00:43:23:06 - 00:43:31:12 Unknown They should get out that day with a big fat check. Right. Well, I know a lot of them don't get checks either. It's true. Yeah. 00:43:31:12 - 00:43:35:11 Unknown blows my mind. Absolutely blows my mind. 00:43:35:11 - 00:43:47:07 Unknown In your experience, what role does public awareness and activism play in advocating for the justice reform and exoneration? it means everything. 00:43:47:07 - 00:44:09:26 Unknown I feel like without the public, I would not be here. I would not. I feel like I would not have gotten this far with all these cases. I feel like they're like when it comes to like Jessie Drake used to be Magruder. When it comes to and he would call a junior up just so when he was Kevin Billingsley. 00:44:09:28 - 00:44:36:22 Unknown There's just so many to name Matthew Baker all is facing trial for a death penalty crime he did not commit. But it's gotten a lot of attention that he did not commit this crime, which is important because the judge or the district attorney in that case was sweating bullets because people painted this case that everything because without the public, there would be no progress. 00:44:36:25 - 00:45:02:24 Unknown They would be able to just continue to sweep all this under the rug like nothing ever happened and they would be forgotten. So the public gets everything. I think the other thing that they should put into play, too, is the judges that hear the initial case should not be the ones that do the appeal, because every time we turn down the appeal, because they feel that they judged it properly. 00:45:02:26 - 00:45:08:29 Unknown Right. I think it needs a second, second set of eyes or a third. 00:45:08:29 - 00:45:18:01 Unknown How or what are some systematic issues within the criminal justice system that contribute to wrongful convictions? 00:45:18:01 - 00:45:33:28 Unknown So race is definitely a factor in the 13th Amendment. It says slavery still legalized in the prisons prison system. So it was never it was just redesigned. so we got to get rid of that, what's called 13th Amendment loophole. 00:45:33:28 - 00:45:57:19 Unknown We got to get rid of that. when it comes to I mean, when it comes to the Bipoc community, general, they're targeted. But and when you're poor, period, I mean, you are targeted unless you're member of the elite, you are targeted because there's a lot of poor white people who are wrongfully convicted. Right. so it's so they're like when it comes to race and class. 00:45:57:21 - 00:46:31:04 Unknown Absolutely. That those are definite factors. But like I said, if you're like a poor black man, my gosh. Absolutely. That's all like the biggest factor right there and all. But like I say, if you're not a member of the elite, like you hear about people like Jeffrey Epstein, all rich people like Jerk Fogel, like getting away with all crimes, just a slap on the wrist because they're rich. 00:46:31:06 - 00:46:57:26 Unknown Right? And I and I he brought this many times to the rich people where they do these horrible crimes that should put them under the prison. But now it doesn't happen at all. And you've got all people who are poor people from the Bipoc community who can't afford a good lawyer, a public defender and a public defender either works for the state or the federal government. 00:46:57:27 - 00:47:28:14 Unknown They're not going to go get your balls. They're not going to say, my boss is wrong. So sometimes court defenders are good, but most of the time it's not going to happen. So. Right. And so I got people in prison who are not only wrongfully convicted, who are sentenced, who are there, you know, like for a very minor court, like a nonviolent drug crime, other people or mental ill who should be in a hospital. 00:47:28:16 - 00:47:50:27 Unknown I'm not saying that prison doesn't have people who are aren't guilty like there are people in prison who should be there. Right. Think otherwise. I'm just saying, you know, when it comes to my tax dollars, I want to house people who deserve to be in there. Right. And those are the leading factors right there. Definitely. 00:47:50:27 - 00:47:59:24 Unknown do you collaborate with legal experts, investigators and other professionals to support your other advocacy efforts? 00:47:59:24 - 00:48:46:25 Unknown You are working with other advocacy groups like that's not too hard because we're in it all for the same goal. sometimes you get it. A little cliquish, but not always. Like I said, we're in this together when it comes to legal experts. AAM there are like workers the law students that's a bit easier but when it comes to all anyone who's you know charging that's a bit harder I can get their opinion but usually it's hard to get someone to do it for free sometimes they'll do an interview lawyer I got a few who are doing an interview for Jesse Drake's use who are legal and they do want to give their $0.02 when 00:48:46:25 - 00:49:02:18 Unknown it comes to this case because they worked with him when it came to getting the new evidence submitted. So but other than that, when it comes to working with legal experts, it's a bit hard to without paying them. 00:49:02:18 - 00:49:07:23 Unknown but usually I can at least get an opinion. I can at least go like, okay, well, here's my advice. 00:49:07:23 - 00:49:14:07 Unknown So they can at least do that much. But I get more luck with all lawsuits. Law professors. 00:49:14:07 - 00:49:17:26 Unknown Well, and that's good. I mean, I think there was 00:49:17:26 - 00:49:29:03 Unknown but I remember there was a cold case that was solved by a bunch of law students that the teacher. Yeah, the teacher is like, all right, let's let's do that. 00:49:29:03 - 00:49:40:17 Unknown Let's focus on this and work on this and see what we can do and mean. Now Even podcasts are solving cold cases. Yeah, we have We'll be interviewing a lady 00:49:40:17 - 00:49:55:24 Unknown probably this spring. She's in Florida right now. I'm quite busy as a snowbird, but so our schedules don't like she's available during the day and I'm not. So when she gets back to Minnesota, we're going to have her on. 00:49:55:24 - 00:50:20:28 Unknown And she's got a cold case of somebody that was murdered in Minnesota. So she's going to tell the story on that. And cold cases, they depress me, but it's like I just want them all solved. And I think with like the 23 and me, you know, that kind of stuff is going to be huge for even the wrongfully convicted and cold cases and stuff like that. 00:50:21:03 - 00:50:24:05 Unknown They're doing all the genealogy stuff now 00:50:24:05 - 00:50:45:29 Unknown and going down. You know, they're able I mean, I'm sure that bullet has DNA on it. I'm sure. And I'm sure it has. You know, just like any bullet, it has its own fingerprint. So it's some point that gun could come back into play and it could match another bullet and it could be something like that. 00:50:45:29 - 00:51:01:03 Unknown That solves that as well. Right. And whoever did it in prison, we want justice for. Right? Right. Because what is that? What is that other person been doing all this time? You know, they're probably not a pillar of the community, you know. 00:51:01:03 - 00:51:15:00 Unknown some of that just blows my mind. Totally blows my mind. What advice would you give to someone who wants to get involved for advocating for in the Senate individuals in prison? 00:51:15:04 - 00:51:29:20 Unknown So I would suggest, first of all, start with cases that are more well known, like, let's say Billy Allen, Richard Glossop. I would say get involved in there because I'll 00:51:29:20 - 00:51:32:26 Unknown spreading the word about their cases. Like 00:51:32:26 - 00:51:46:15 Unknown the more people on their cases, the better off they already got. Like I said, it's pretty viral. So just happened we need more people involved and too big toe dicked in. 00:51:46:18 - 00:52:06:24 Unknown And as you keep talking about their cases, you keep making more videos, sharing their petitions. you'll like an Instagram, for instance. You'll see more clemency accounts. I'll get recommended to you. And that way you can all start researching these cases. Like when Sharon's was 00:52:06:24 - 00:52:12:07 Unknown recommended to me, I Googled his name and I thought 00:52:12:07 - 00:52:15:22 Unknown more of Martha, more articles about on this is messed up. 00:52:15:24 - 00:52:25:28 Unknown And I emailed his account. I'm like, What can I do to help? So that's, you know, when it comes to the smaller cases, Google their name. CV then comes up, 00:52:25:28 - 00:52:30:18 Unknown ask them what can I do for your case? just like 00:52:30:18 - 00:52:36:10 Unknown as you get from a bigger account to the smaller names. Like the smaller people. Absolutely need you. 00:52:36:10 - 00:53:03:12 Unknown Like the smaller people, but cases that are unknown. I need your help. Absolutely. Because I'll like, absolutely get involved the big cases. But people who are unknown, like they absolutely need your help. that's I, I know there's so many people I know we can't help everyone, but, you know, we can't go and and ignore someone because of not enough people involved. 00:53:03:13 - 00:53:20:00 Unknown All it takes is you getting involved. You make enough noise. And I promise you, more people will get involved. People start listening. is there anything that we have or that we have not covered that you would like to cover 00:53:20:00 - 00:53:31:04 Unknown all? The only other thing I'd like to say is please, I mention this briefly, but vote. because I like I said briefly, I will reiterate it. 00:53:31:04 - 00:54:06:01 Unknown Your vote does matter. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Every vote absolutely counts. And all research. Every candidate don't vote straight, red, blue, whatever research every candidate carefully and look into their background, look into their morals, their principles, and say, okay, will this candidate represent me or my area and do that with every candidate down the ballot? We've got primaries coming up, so please do your research and I'll I'm with Rock the Vote. 00:54:06:01 - 00:54:34:20 Unknown So my beacons page, my bio you can go through. I have links to where you can register to vote. You could check your registration status in case you are moved, something like that. But I'm not telling you who to vote for. I'm telling you you need to vote because if we don't get the right people in office, the judges, prosecutors, people like that, we're not going to make any progress in how many people just when they're going through the ballots. 00:54:34:20 - 00:54:59:23 Unknown And I'm no I know I'm guilty of it, too. You get to those things at the end. The judges and the the stuff that you know nothing about. It's like, I don't know, I've done that too. Yeah. Or it's like, okay, you ready? Which I should probably just leave them blank because I don't know. I don't even know if you try to leave them alone. 00:54:59:29 - 00:55:00:19 Unknown So 00:55:00:19 - 00:55:05:07 Unknown And what if you don't like anybody that's running 00:55:05:07 - 00:55:26:21 Unknown the sample ballots online so you can research ahead of time? That's what I'm doing right now. And Alabama and, But yeah, that. right there it's if you don't like anyone that is like, point blank. I understand that right there. But Kenya. Kenya or Kanye West. Yeah. 00:55:26:23 - 00:55:58:07 Unknown Vote for him this year. Hey. I heard that he's supposedly not himself anymore. I he's supposedly a couple inches taller and different color. The whole conspiracy thing. We've had a couple of conspiracy theory theorists podcast recently, so it's been pretty funny. I never really got into the whole conspiracy theory things, but some things are like, What the heck makes you kind of wonder? 00:55:58:07 - 00:56:29:01 Unknown Yeah, it does. Jeremy just did an episode on the Flat Earth and he created his own flat Earth and it was like, it was funny. I live there. Songs like Control the Temperature. Yeah, 80 all the time. We can't complain. We have had the most mild winter for Minnesota that I can ever remember. We have only had snow, what, three times? 00:56:29:01 - 00:56:52:29 Unknown And none of it has stuck and we've our ice out. Yeah, our lakes are opening up already, which never happens this early this year and today was like 60 something I think. And that doesn't happen and well I guess it's March now, but normally January we're like in the -20 is like and that's not windchill, that's air temp. 00:56:52:29 - 00:57:19:09 Unknown And we were like thirties, forties, fifties all through January and February. I'm like, it's probably like, I've never even seen snow. Yeah, I, I have a few times. man. Horrible, right? Yeah. Big storms, snowstorms a few times. You know, it snows down there. Everything shuts down. It's like, yeah, go to work. We don't go to school. 00:57:19:09 - 00:57:22:25 Unknown Nothing. You drive through a foot of snow. Yeah, 00:57:22:25 - 00:57:54:26 Unknown but usually the first couple snowstorms, people forget. They forget how to drive and it's like, just get off the road. But years turns more into ice than ours does a nationally, too. So and we've got the the crews to clear the roads and stuff so not that they ever do but I don't think they've cleared the roads once this year in any of the snows that we've had over that he should still be out there plowing. 00:57:54:28 - 00:58:20:21 Unknown But well, anyway, why don't you go ahead and let us know where we can find you again or where everybody can find you. you can find my work site Voices behind bars dot org. there's my podcast Voice behind bars that is owned by prison audio available almost streaming services. Ah, you can also find me on TikTok and Instagram under the username. 00:58:20:21 - 00:59:03:00 Unknown It's Sara only on one word. It says rh0nly. So it's Sara only I'm also on threads and yeah, follow me on there and I'll constantly keep you updated about cases and also voices behind bars has their own r Facebook official Facebook page now sup also there I and like I said we'll keep you updated and all luck alterations like I said or tax deductible and all we have new upset about every week on my podcast so I love it and if any if like Timothy or any of those guys are ever interested, we'd love to have them on the show. 00:59:03:00 - 00:59:27:27 Unknown We'd to hear their story, love to hear, you know, how things are going, what still needs to be done. You know, let them have let them have a voice. Absolutely. Thank you. Definitely. Well, thanks so much for coming on. We greatly appreciate it. Very neon. Yeah. And then maybe, you know, in the future, we'll have you back on to give give us some updates. 00:59:27:29 - 00:59:43:20 Unknown I love that the pieces are going and stuff so well. Thank you so much for taking your time on a busy weekend and spending an hour with us. We appreciate it so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 00:59:43:20 - 01:00:06:15 Unknown And that wraps up another episode of Total Conundrum. We want to extend a huge thank you to our incredible guests, Sara from Voiceless behind bars for sharing her insight and shedding light on such an important topic. Absolutely. Sara's work is truly commendable and we appreciate the passion and dedication she brings to advocating for those who need it most. 01:00:06:18 - 01:00:21:12 Unknown Keep fighting the good fight. And to all those listeners out there, don't forget to continue supporting the cause. Like follow and subscribe and help us spread awareness about the injustices faced by innocent people incarcerated. 01:00:21:20 - 01:00:31:02 Unknown That's right. And remember, folks, we're all in this together. Let's keep striving for justice and making our voices heard. Until next time, stay curious. 01:00:31:07 - 01:00:34:07 Unknown Stay compassionate and keep seeking the truth. 01:00:34:07 - 01:00:40:00 Unknown Keep on keeping on. We love you. Love you. Bye. Bye. Bye bye. 01:00:40:00 - 01:01:03:10 Unknown Thanks for hanging out with us here. A total conundrum. Please make sure to check out our website and blog at Total Conundrum dot com for news. Upcoming events, merch bloopers and additional hysteria you never know will pop up, so be sure to follow along if you want to show your support for total Conundrum and gain access to all of our bonus content, please visit our patron page. 01:01:03:12 - 01:01:31:01 Unknown You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. The links are available on our show notes. If you have any questions, comments, recommendations or stories to share, please email us at. Contact at total conundrum dot com. Episodes are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. If you like the show, please rate review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. 01:01:31:03 - 01:02:09:15 Unknown We appreciate the love. Keep on keeping on Mother Truckers and fans and.