00;00;09;23 - 00;01;05;23 Unknown And if you dig the twisted, admired the outlandish and are enamored by the unusual, you're in the right place. True crime, the supernatural, the unexplained. Now you're speaking early, which if you agree, join us as we dive into the darker side, you know, because it's more fun over here. Welcome to Total Conundrum one. She must first move on the phone call to stop this discussion. 00;01;05;26 - 00;01;38;09 Unknown Is it balanced or a conundrum crew? Welcome back to Total Conundrum. I'm Jeremy. And I'm Tracy. Today, folks were diving into a twisted tale of H.H. Holmes, the OG master of multitasking. You know, running a hotel murder factory all at once. Casual Tuesday, right? Absolutely crazy, Tracy. But before we unravel the mayhem and madness, don't forget to hit that, like, unsubscribe button on YouTube. 00;01;38;11 - 00;02;00;07 Unknown And if you're tuning in on Spotify or Apple, we're practically begging you to give us a five star rating and let the world know we are your favorite podcast. We thrive on your love people. It means a lot to us and it helps us move up in the ranks. Now under H.H. Holmes. Jeremy, tell us about this multitask talking maniac. 00;02;00;14 - 00;02;28;11 Unknown H.H. Holmes, entrepreneur of Nightmares. He's like the Gordon Ramsay of Murder Hotels, five stars of terror. But before we go any further, here's a quick shout out to our podcast pals. Three siblings walk into a bar and a couple of couples podcast. We traded trailers with them this week, so check out their show. And if you want to join the podcast trailer exchange, send us a message on Instagram. 00;02;28;23 - 00;02;57;00 Unknown I love those two podcasts. Daryl Johnny dribs and drabs from a couple of couples will definitely have you in stitches and three siblings who walk into a bar are three true life siblings Sage to Shay and Storm. Their banter will have you coming back for more. Now. Back to Holmes, the multitasking maven. Jeremy. How did he pull off running a hotel in a murder factory simultaneously? 00;02;57;03 - 00;03;31;06 Unknown Well, Tracy, it's all about a work life balance. Holmes took it to the next level. Imagine checking into a hotel and realizing your room comes with a side of surreal killer. We're talking murder, mayhem, and probably a mint on the pillow as a cherry on top. A poison mint on the pillow, maybe. Classy. Touch, Holmes. And, listeners, if you have a favorite H.H. Holmes murder fact or your own true crime or supernatural experience, share it with us on social media or email us at. 00;03;31;09 - 00;03;50;13 Unknown Contact at total conundrum dot com. Your tales might just make it to the next episode. So true. Now buckle up for the H.H. Holmes experience. It's like Disneyland, but with more screams and fewer cheers. We'll be back after these messages. 00;03;50;16 - 00;04;16;20 Unknown Have you ever wondered what it's like to hang out with three siblings in a bar? Three siblings that like to tell true crime and paranormal stories and are also hilarious. I'm to the older sibling. I'm Sage, the middle sibling, and I'm Storm the youngest sibling. So come hang out with us every Monday for a new episode of three siblings walking to a bar available on wherever you listen to your podcast. 00;04;16;22 - 00;04;44;25 Unknown Hey, Jeremy, how are you? Good. Tracy, How are you? I'm well. Well, we made it through the Christmas holiday. Barely. Barely. You got to stay home. I know. It's awesome. I went to Illinois to celebrate with my sister and her family. We got to take a limo ride to dinner. That was really fun. It's awesome. And my two little nephews, Reggie and Max. 00;04;45;02 - 00;05;09;22 Unknown my goodness. They are so into technology and YouTube and they were so excited to. They wanted to create little shorts for us for on YouTube. And it was so cute. So I did post those and they're looking for the likes. They want to get the likes. I keep getting messages from my sister. The boys want to know how many likes they have. 00;05;09;25 - 00;05;34;10 Unknown Yeah, they're going to make us go viral, they said. Yeah. So. And as you see, we are sporting our new camera, which. Yeah, the sweatshirt. You can't really see it very well. My camera in my head moving with me. But yeah, we got our merch in the mail, so that was like a little early Christmas present for us. 00;05;34;16 - 00;05;55;07 Unknown Pretty cool. So we'll definitely order some more. That was the quality was really great. I love it. Yeah. And I had to go pink because girls just need a little pink in their life, you know? yeah. So, do we have any other news? I don't think so. right. So, no, I can't think of anything either. 00;05;55;07 - 00;06;20;07 Unknown I think we are all kind of more the newscaster than I am. BPP, BPP, breaking news. Just kind of grunt and shake my head. Yeah. Let's go. Let's do this. Well, if that's all we have. to be able to buy our merch. If you're interested, you can go to bonfire dot com slash store slash total conundrum. yeah. 00;06;20;07 - 00;06;45;24 Unknown And that's where you can get all the special stuff. We do have a promo code for 10% off. And that code is t c p ten. Nice. Nice. Get you some. Get you some merch. all right, Jeremy. Well, what do you got for us today? Well, I think from my previous story, we kind of delved into 80 tomes a bit. 00;06;45;26 - 00;07;25;00 Unknown We're going to talk about him a little bit. Nice. So I got a little story, and here's how it starts. H.H. Holmes was born Herman Webster, Majid on May 16th, 1861, in Gill Mountain, New Hampshire, third child of Levi Horton, Majin and Theodore at Page Price Merchant. Levi and Page had five children. Ellen P Majid. Arthur P Majid, Herman Webster, Majid, Henry, Levi, Imogene and Mary Adams. 00;07;25;02 - 00;07;55;23 Unknown So Levi and Paige both were descended from the first English settlers in the area. They were devout Methodists. Levi worked as a farmer, trader and house painter. He was also reportedly a heavy drinker who cruelly mistreated his family. Well, that's not very nice. No, he's kind of a. Yeah. Holmes attended Phillips Exeter Academy before graduating high school with honors from Gill and Academy. 00;07;55;26 - 00;08;22;03 Unknown When he was 16 years old, during school, Holmes was bullied by classmates due to his outstanding academic capabilities. In one incident, he was forced to stand in front of a human skeleton and put the skeleton's hands on his face. A real life skeleton like real life skeleton. Not one you buy from Home Depot like us. no. This one wasn't plastic. 00;08;22;05 - 00;09;02;04 Unknown So in an effort to frighten, initially terrified, Holmes later discovered the experience to be intriguing and claimed that it helped him overcome his worries. Holmes subsequently developed an obsession with death as a result of the encounter just from Jaws, from the boy. And later took up the pastime of dissecting animals. After graduating high school and at the age of 17, Holmes decided to get married to Clara Lovering and had a son, Robert Lovering, murdered. 00;09;02;07 - 00;09;41;16 Unknown Holmes enrolled in the University of Vermont at the age of 18, but was dissatisfied with the school and left after a year. In 1882, Holmes enrolled in the University of Michigan's Department of Medicine and Surgery and graduated in 1884 after passing exams. While Holmes was enrolled. He worked in the anatomy lab. Housemates recalled that Holmes was physically violent with Clara and in 1884, before he graduated, Clara moved back to New Hampshire. 00;09;41;19 - 00;10;07;26 Unknown She said, I'm out of here. I'm out of here. And with little contact with Holmes. After that, Holmes would move to Moors, New York, and a rumor would spread that Holmes had been seen with a little boy who later disappeared. Holmes claimed that the boy went back home to Massachusetts. There was never any investigation into the case, and Holmes quickly left town. 00;10;08;02 - 00;10;37;05 Unknown So this little boy was last spotted with him. Disappeared. Disappears. He leaves town. Please tell me they go after him. Nope. What? Nope. They just kind of let it go. So. Okay. He left town and later traveled to Philadelphia and was hired as a keeper at Norristown State Hospital, which was a state mental hospital. He was employed as a druggist. 00;10;37;07 - 00;11;01;12 Unknown He only lasted about a week and quit after his stint at the hospital. Holmes got a job at a drugstore in Philadelphia. The drug is kind of like a pharmacist. Yeah. Or like an assistant pharmacist or whatever, you know, basically. But while he was working there, there was a boy who died after taking medication that was purchased at the drugstore. 00;11;01;15 - 00;11;32;21 Unknown Holmes denied any involvement in the child's death and immediately left the city. I'm seeing a pattern already. Yeah, he likes to bail at this point. In August 1886. Holmes started using the alias H.H. Holmes to avoid the possibility of being exposed by victims of his previous crimes. It is said that Holmes was a fan of Sherlock Holmes, and that is how he came up with the name. 00;11;32;23 - 00;12;06;06 Unknown He decided to move to Chicago, where he would meet Maida Bell Neck while still married to his first wife, Clara. He decided to marry Marta. That doesn't work. No. While still married. Decides to marry someone. Maybe back in that time period. It worked just fine. I don't know. Probably no paper trail. Well, definitely no paper trail. A few weeks after they got married, Holmes filed for divorce from Clara on the grounds of her committing adultery. 00;12;06;09 - 00;12;40;02 Unknown The claims could not be proven, and the suit was never finalized. It was eventually dismissed. Holmes started working at a drugstore in Inglewood, on the northwest corner of South Wallace Avenue and West 63rd Street, which was owned by Dr. Elizabeth Horton. And she gave Holmes a job. He proved to be a hardworking employee. He eventually purchased the store, and there is a lot of debate on whether he was sued for not paying Dr. Horton for the building. 00;12;40;09 - 00;13;09;21 Unknown There are or were rumors that he killed Dr. Elizabeth Horton to get the property, which is not true. It appears that she had eventually moved to California and died in 1933. Holmes purchased the lot right across the street from the drugstore, and in 1887, construction began to build a mixed use building with apartments on the top and a new drugstore and other retail spaces. 00;13;09;23 - 00;13;34;21 Unknown Holmes would hire contractors to build the specific aspect of the castle and fire them in the middle of the job for one of two reasons. One was that he didn't want anyone to know his exact floor plans. The other was to stop payment to the contractor under the claims that the contractor didn't do quality work. The building of the castle went on for months. 00;13;34;28 - 00;14;02;00 Unknown Holmes had hired hundreds and hundreds of carpenters. Most would work for a short time, then move on. Holmes purchased a bank vault and had it installed in the basement where he had walls built around the vault. He purchased the vault also on credit, which he never paid for. So the company threatened to repossess the safe. And Holmes told the company they could come and get the safe. 00;14;02;00 - 00;14;25;19 Unknown But if they damaged his building at all, he would sue them for everything they were worth. So he is a con man. Kind of reminds me of the Winchester mansion, how they kept building and building and but, you know, that's I mean, she paid her contractors and didn't keep switching them, but I think she did switch them quite often. 00;14;25;25 - 00;14;51;27 Unknown did she? Because that was the thing. She would have them do specific tasks. And then once they're done with that task, they would leave. very, very similar. Okay. So the company that sold them the vault eventually gave up and just brought it off as lost. At that point, Holmes had a longstanding history of having work done or purchasing items, using credit and then never paying. 00;14;52;05 - 00;15;16;22 Unknown The second floor of the castle was laid out in normal manor rooms for offices and rooms that he would rent out. The third floor was created as a maze or a labyrinth. The floor plan of the third floor was very unusual. There would be doors that went nowhere. They would open the door to a brick wall behind it. 00;15;16;25 - 00;15;47;20 Unknown Stairs that would not go anywhere. They later found small rooms. The size of closets were trap and the floors. Rooms that were set like torture rooms. Hidden passages. A secret shaft that he would grease that went from the third floor all the way down to the basement. At issue, you know, which is, you know, which is how he would move his victims bodies around the castle to get them into the basement. 00;15;47;26 - 00;16;22;23 Unknown Not often. Like kids, he'd not an entertaining thing. No. The basement had many more stations set up that he would use to dismember the bodies. And he had a glass blowing furnace installed, which he would use to burn the bodies after. he flayed them? No. So he had his own crematorium in there, basically. Yeah. And he when it was installed, they questioned him on it and he was like, well, we're doing glassblowing projects. 00;16;23;07 - 00;16;47;26 Unknown my God. No, This reminds me, do you remember when we did that tour? Ghost Tours in New Orleans and they showed us that first pharmacy in America? Yeah, That guy had a chute that was above his garage or whatever, and he would take the carriage out at night. But it just reminds me, Holmes was like a pharmacist assistant or whatever. 00;16;47;26 - 00;17;07;02 Unknown And then the shoot. I wonder if he ever worked in New Orleans with that other crazy guy. I don't know. I think there was some kind of mentions of New Orleans, but I'm not positive. Yeah, it's kind of weird. But that guy had the yellow I think it was a yellow fever clinic or. Well, it was definitely something different. 00;17;07;02 - 00;17;28;08 Unknown I mean, yeah, he was testing on people with yellow fever, some kind of disease from way back when. But the similarities are kind of crazy with the pharmacy and the suits and it wasn't that story in, like the 1900s or. I would have to look it up. Maybe I'll do something. I should do a story in New Orleans. 00;17;28;08 - 00;17;55;14 Unknown That would be fun. Yeah, it'd be pretty good. Yeah. So he would then clean all the bones and reassembled their skeletons. Put a price tag on them and sell them to the medical schools in anatomy labs or whoever he could. I'm pretty sure they didn't volunteer for that. no. There were more torture devices found in the basement, one that Holmes claimed to be for turning humans into giants. 00;17;55;17 - 00;18;22;15 Unknown It was a stretching machine that wouldn't pull the arms and legs. In 1889, Holmes met Benjamin Pozzo, who had just arrived in Chicago in the fall. Benjamin was the type that seemed always to have a black cloud over his head. No matter his attempts, he would generally fail. He didn't have much luck holding down jobs. Benjamin was married and had five children. 00;18;22;22 - 00;18;49;19 Unknown He was a family man and he could do whatever he needed to sustain his family, including robbery and stealing. Struggling to provide, he eventually resorted to drinking heavily. Benjamin inquired about a job as a carpenter that Holmes had posted in the newspaper. Holmes and Benjamin became fast friends, and he would become Holmes, his right hand man and partner in crime. 00;18;49;22 - 00;19;27;03 Unknown Holmes would become almost another member of Benjamin's family, even hanging out with his kids. Tom Creepy. I'm still stuck on the stretching machine. In the documentary, that's what you hear. No, that's so wrong. So Chicago World's Fair came to town in 1893. Over 20 million people from all around the world attended the fair from May 1st to October 30th, 1893. 00;19;27;05 - 00;19;59;05 Unknown Holmes would take advantage of the fair as a perfect opportunity to capitalize on his demented design of the castle. HOLMES This castle was located just a few miles from the World's Fair, so it was a convenient location for accommodations close to the fairgrounds, attracting lots of people. Holmes renovated the second and third floors with the finest furnishings and luxuries to fill the rooms which he purchased and couldn't, which Holmes had no intentions of. 00;19;59;06 - 00;20;23;16 Unknown I was going to say he hasn't paid anything yet, so why would he start now? Yeah, exactly. Holmes would bring Benjamin's children to the world fair grounds, where Holmes would use the children as a way to meet wealthy women. He would seduce and offer them a warm night stay and a soft bed to sleep in. Holmes saw them as the perfect victim because they were not from Chicago. 00;20;23;18 - 00;20;49;25 Unknown Nobody knew who they were. Nobody would come looking for them. Their families would know they went to the world fair and just never came home. Some of the rooms in the castle were lined with asbestos to make them soundproof, making it easier for Holmes to commit crimes. There were also gas lines going to each of these rooms, which Holmes would control from his office. 00;20;49;27 - 00;21;11;09 Unknown So asbestos, isn't that the stuff that they wrapped around pipes? Yeah. Is that why they wrapped it around pipes to cover the sound? Yeah. I never knew that the rooms were designed to be airtight. He would then lead the victims into the rooms, thinking they were going to get a great night's sleep, and he would spy on them through a peephole in the walls. 00;21;11;13 - 00;21;40;25 Unknown Dirty bastard. Exactly. Turning on the gas and wait for them to start moving. Holmes was a busy man. My guessing is victims renting out rooms, hiding from creditors, selling skeletons, and seducing women who were in his life. And here I thought we were busy working in podcasting. Holmes took it to a whole different, whole new level, different way, bigger. 00;21;40;28 - 00;22;14;06 Unknown So, Hugh Hefner. Holmes, what you calling him? I like it. Yeah. As he should have been called, sitting in his murder, Playboy Castle. He was married to three women at the same time. The women of Chicago. Fancy the doctor and business man. While he was seducing many, many more women at this time, while somehow managing to keep it a secret from each of the women, he kind of went for them. 00;22;14;09 - 00;22;44;05 Unknown In 1890, Julia Carter became one of Holmes employees and mistress says, yeah, she had a daughter named Pearl, and they both resided in the castle. Julia became pregnant and demanded that Holmes marry her. Holmes agreed on the condition that she allow him to perform an abortion on her. And she agreed. What? He's not a doctor. Well, technically, he is. 00;22;44;08 - 00;23;13;06 Unknown He went to med school. Yeah, that's what I was seeing on the Jack the Ripper case. Yeah, that's right. These guys spend a lifetime going through medical school. Well, most of them don't graduate, but he actually graduated from medical. Okay. Yet he becomes a drug test, you know? Yeah. Like taking the drug test. That's a funny term. Yeah, And maybe, you know, drug did more than just drug people. 00;23;13;07 - 00;23;41;22 Unknown I don't know. But since here. And maybe I'll get to this. Or maybe it was somebody else, I'm thinking of. Didn't he, like, take out fake life insurance policies on bodies from the lab and then cashing in fake insurance? Yeah, he was actually doing that with his professor of the school, and that is why he quit school and changed his name to h h home. 00;23;41;22 - 00;24;09;14 Unknown Okay, so that was back before he became Holmes. He was still my agent. So he is getting all this money from fake insurance policies, building a murder castle. But, yeah, refused to pay anybody anything. Yeah, maybe he's blowing it all. And hookers that he's killing. So he's not paying them either? Yeah, I don't know. my God. This guy's a fruit loop. 00;24;09;16 - 00;24;42;24 Unknown So neither Julia nor her daughter Pearl were ever seen again. Of course not. A week later, Holmes sold a clean, articulated skeleton and Hahnemann Medical College for nearly $200. That's a lot of money, but that's a lot of bones. Yeah. no pun intended. Maybe a little. In 1892, Holmes met Emeline Sigmund, who became another mistress of Holmes. 00;24;42;26 - 00;25;06;17 Unknown She also worked for Holmes as a private secretary. yeah. Sex? Yeah, As secretary. Yeah. One day, Holmes requested that Emmeline go retrieve some papers from the vault. Don't go into the vault. Don't go in the vault. And once she entered the vault, guess what happened? Slammed doors shut. Gas came on. Yeah, He closed the door for no reason. 00;25;06;18 - 00;25;38;11 Unknown He didn't gasser, though? No, but sealing her inside while waiting for her to suffocate to death. Yeah. I mean, the gas would have been almost nicer. Yeah, quicker. What an asshole. What an ass. Two weeks later, Holmes sold a female skeleton to the University of Chicago. What a coincidence. Yeah, right. Just a year later, in 1893. Holmes hired a new private secretary. 00;25;38;18 - 00;26;11;07 Unknown Many Williams. boy. Run. Many. Run many. She would also become the next mistress. Many was the beneficiary of a property in Fort Worth, Texas, valued at over $40,000. Holmes seduced many into signing over the property. Was he a good looking guy? He was a good looking guy, I guess. I mean, he's a creeper and I mean, he looks screaming to me, but certainly all the women. 00;26;11;12 - 00;26;42;10 Unknown Did he ever handlebar mustache? Kind of, you know. Should have been a biker. Yes. So then he decided he's going to kill many and her younger sister, Nanny. What did Nanny do? I don't know. In 1894, Georgina yoe became Holmes's third wife. my God. These women, I know, they're. They're just. They flocked to this crazy doctor. He married her under the name of Henry Mansfield. 00;26;42;10 - 00;27;16;02 Unknown Howard, like Holmes's other wives, Georgina lived out the rest of her entire life, So he wasn't killing his wives. So, you know, that would have been the way to go, I guess. Just marry the dude. Yeah. Benjamin Basil's drinking was getting worse, and employees would hear Purcell and Holmes fighting about money. Holmes knew that Purcell was familiar with Holmes's dirty dealings and started fearing that he would start spreading it around town in one of his drunken stupors. 00;27;16;05 - 00;27;46;17 Unknown Holmes had decided that Purcell had outlived its usefulness. So Holmes devised a plan. Holmes had Purcell take out a life insurance policy on his life, listing Purcell's wife as the beneficiary of the policy. Holmes told Purcell that they would fake his death in Philadelphia, which is where the insurance company was located. Holmes would then substitute a cadaver in place of Purcell. 00;27;46;20 - 00;28;14;08 Unknown After his fake death, Purcell would go underground for a while, and then they would split the proceeds. They decided to take this act all over the country, committing fraud in numerous states. Alexander e Cook, AC. Hayes. G. Hall. These are just a few of the other aliases that Holmes would use during this time of his cross-country fraud adventures. 00;28;14;11 - 00;28;41;27 Unknown Let's crazy. Yeah. In 1894, Holmes attempted to swindle another drugstore owner in Saint Louis, and this time he failed. And for the first time in his criminal career, he got caught and went to jail. Ooh. Why? Lock them up? Lock them up. Throw away the key. That's right. While in jail, his cellmate was Marion Hedge Peth, who was a very notorious outlaw. 00;28;42;01 - 00;29;14;01 Unknown Holmes told the hedge Pathe about his insurance scheme and hedge pass gave Holmes the name of a crooked lawyer who could help with Purcell's insurance policy. In exchange, Holmwood agreed to pay Hedge $500 for the policy payout. Holmes was bailed out of prison by his new wife, Georgina Yeol, after he spun lies about why he was incarcerated. Two weeks later, Holmes and Purcell arrived in Philadelphia. 00;29;14;04 - 00;29;43;04 Unknown They decided that 1316 Callow Hill Street be the location of their insurance scam, Purcell tells his wife Carrie about the scam, and she begged them not to go through with it. After some convincing, she finally agrees. Purcell becomes the alias B.F. Perry, a patent dealer. One month later, a customer walks into the patent office to talk about an idea for a patent. 00;29;43;10 - 00;30;10;05 Unknown He walks into the office empty. Decides to walk upstairs to see if anybody is around and finds Jeff Perry dead on the floor. The facts aren't quite clear, but they think H.H. Holmes got Brazil drunk and then used chloroform and then faked a kind of explosion that had supposedly taken place in the house among these various chemicals that were there. 00;30;10;08 - 00;30;41;17 Unknown Then he burned Purcell's face and disfigured him so he wouldn't be recognized. Holmes had to go in and identify the body as being Benjamin Purcell and also Zell's daughter, Alice. Carrie believes that her husband is in hiding because of the scam that her husband told her about. Both Holmes and Alice identified the body as Benjamin Purcell. Back then, there wasn't identification by fingerprints, since fingerprinting didn't start until 1903. 00;30;41;19 - 00;31;07;29 Unknown So they used a method called the Brazilian method, where they would take measurements from the body, the arms band of the person, the width of the head, length of their feet. After the identification, the coroner ruled it was an accidental death. Holmes put Alice up in a hotel in Indianapolis. Upon Holmes return, Carrie is shaken by Alice and Benjamin. 00;31;08;02 - 00;31;31;27 Unknown He convinces her that Alice and Benjamin are safe and that it's best to take Nelly and Howard to stay with their father. Holmes told her that with investigators investigating the insurance case, it would be better if she wasn't seen traveling with five children. The insurance company ruled it an accidental death and paid out the insurers claim to carry pizzo. 00;31;32;00 - 00;31;58;14 Unknown Holmes would then swindle most of the money from her and promising to reunite their family and needing the money to make that happen and then not coming home or coming on. Holmes would then separate the children in two different locations, only blocks from one another. Holmes, at this point, is enjoying this game of keeping this family separated. Six Sadistic bastard. 00;31;58;20 - 00;32;23;06 Unknown Yes, he is. You get so distracted he forgets about the deal he made with the hedge pit hedge path reads in the newspaper that Purcell is dead and he goes to the warden and tells him all about the insurance fraud, conspiracy and the murder of Benjamin Pizzo. The warden then contacted the insurance company and the insurance companies sent out the Pinkertons out on the trail after Holmes. 00;32;23;08 - 00;32;50;19 Unknown The Pinkertons were known for tracking down fugitives from one end of the earth to the other. like a modern day dog, the bounty hunter. Pretty much. They were the original bad asses, though. Their motto is We never sleep. So were they, like the ones that would go after like Jesse James? You betcha. Those are the ones. So as a good wild West history will tell you the Pinkertons weren't people you wanted to mess with. 00;32;50;20 - 00;33;25;16 Unknown Doesn't sound like it. No. As they always get their man. They were also the innovators of the mug shot when capturing criminals. They would photograph and catalog them into a database. After a lengthy search, the Pinkerton finally caught and arrested Holmes on November 17th, 1894, in Boston. He was then transported to moments in prison in Philadelphia. He was tried for conspiracy to cheat and defraud the Fidelity Mutual Life Insurance Company. 00;33;25;19 - 00;33;52;16 Unknown Holmes pled guilty to the fraud charges and insisted that Purcell committed suicide. They interviewed Holmes for weeks, trying to find out the whereabouts of those children, and Holmes kept making up different stories each time. Finally, one of the detectives on the case went to try to trace Holmes traveling destination, location that he had been seen in for months up until he was caught. 00;33;52;18 - 00;34;24;16 Unknown Ended up finding the charred remains of Howard Purcell in a stove, in a house in Indianapolis. And they dug up the remains of Alice and Nellie Purcell in a cellar of a house in Toronto. We'll be back after these messages. Welcome to a world of love, friendship, laughter and everything in between. Get ready for the couple. 00;34;24;16 - 00;34;47;22 Unknown A couple's podcast, the ultimate podcast about life hosted by a fantastic foursome. We've got not one, but two couples ready to discuss a wide variety of topics, interest and current events. Join us as we take you on an often hilarious and rarely heartfelt journey through the ups and downs of life, regardless of your walk of life. There's something for everyone on this podcast. 00;34;47;24 - 00;35;11;23 Unknown Meet Daryl Drips. Johnny and I am Darryl. I'm a professional nerd, avid gamer and the self-proclaimed godfather. I'm drips, also known as desserts and also not the most articulate. I'm dropped listening to find out if I am being held against my will. And I'm Johnny. I'm willing to do and try most things and I'm willing to say, well, anything. 00;35;11;26 - 00;35;35;13 Unknown Each episode, these four fabulous friends will tackle topics like forming friendships, weird science, delta gummies, origin stories, ear biting lorikeets, juicy, manly conspiracies, aliens, ghosts, pop culture, TV, music and more. And the best part that was only the first nine episodes. Let us take you on a journey through the highs and lows of what it means to be alive with witty banter. 00;35;35;16 - 00;35;56;15 Unknown Non-experts, and hilarious stories that'll have you in stitches. If you're looking for the next great podcast, then grab your phone, tablet or laptop and subscribe to the couple a couples podcast on your favorite platform today. It's free and it's the best way to make sure you never miss an episode. Don't miss out on the laughs, the love, the occasional. 00;35;56;19 - 00;36;16;15 Unknown Did they really just say that moment? And some jaw dropping surprises you won't want to miss. And speaking of love, let's spread it like confetti. Like follow and share our podcast on social media. And don't forget to visit our website. W. W w. Couple of couples podcast dot com to find links to our show on your favorite platform. 00;36;16;18 - 00;36;43;10 Unknown Links to our social media accounts. Contact us. Or listen to the latest episodes directly from our website. Join us on this roller coaster ride as we dive, twist and turn through everything that the universe throws our way. And don't forget to check out our merchandise store, which can be accessed through our website at WW w a couple of couples podcast dot com featuring custom designs based on our sound bites from your favorite episodes. 00;36;43;13 - 00;37;15;09 Unknown Shirts, hoodies, mugs, tote bags and more. Couple of couples podcast because when it comes to love and laughter. Or are better than once but a dose of laughter love and a little bit of craziness. Subscribe now and be part of our fantastic podcast Family. Subscribe like follow and Share. Let's make love and laughter go viral. After the stories of the children came out, he was almost instantly nationally notorious serial killer. 00;37;15;11 - 00;37;53;06 Unknown Well, dude gets around, he gets around. And in my own words, a giant do shoot. On July 19th, 1895, Chicago police entered Holmes's castle. The world would now learn the horrors inside these walls. They would find bones on the basement floor and chains hanging on the walls, tables that were covered with blood and remnants of flesh, gross surgical knives and saws that were used in dismembering the bodies of the victims as any ever heard of a housekeeper? 00;37;53;07 - 00;38;24;12 Unknown Nope. Well, he always kills them all. He can't keep them here. Ripped from the scope of one of his victims, they also found bloodstained undergarments, containers of body parts and fluids of some kind. After investigating the castle, the police were inundated with the names of people who went missing during the world fair. Eventually, 50 people missing were traced to the murder castle of H.H. Holmes. 00;38;24;15 - 00;38;53;02 Unknown Due to the time and knowledge of the investigators, almost all of what we know about forensic science today didn't exist back then. So many of the victims could not be identified. Even just telling human bones from animal bones was very difficult back then. The public is now coining Holmes, the monster of 63rd Street torture doctor and the modern Bluebeard. 00;38;53;04 - 00;39;21;03 Unknown Bluebeard? Yeah, I don't know why, but. Interesting. After the stories broke, people were now fascinated with Holmes and his murder castle to the degree that they wanted to preserve the castle as a museum of the murders that took place there in that set to the ground. Yeah. Speaking of that. before they had a chance to turn it into the murder mystery funhouse that all the neighborhood kids surely would have loved. 00;39;21;11 - 00;40;09;18 Unknown my God, that's so sadistic. Somebody burnt it down. Yeah, somebody had the wherewithal. Yeah. So while in prison, Holmes wrote an autobiography of preceded entitled Holmes His own story. On his own story? Yeah. Where he writes my sole object in this publication is to vindicate my name from the horrible aspirations cast upon it and to the appeal of a fair minded American public for a suspension of judgment and for a free and fair trial, which is the birthright of every American citizen and the pride and bold work of our American Constitution. 00;40;09;21 - 00;40;41;03 Unknown Holmes was working hard to convince the public of his innocence. He had worked fast because his trial date was approaching quickly, so he was reaching out to anyone that would listen. The trial date was set for September 23rd, 1895. There was a postponement due to Holmes legal counsel wanting to resign. The judge denied the council's request and demanded that he show up for court or be disbarred. 00;40;41;05 - 00;41;04;03 Unknown Well, that's not fair. It kind of is. I mean, I guess because you take on this job, people can resigned from it nowadays. Was it not allowed back then or I don't know. I mean, obviously the man's guilty, obviously, and obviously the guy just didn't like them. Right. Holmes would now have to stand trial for all his heinous crimes. 00;41;04;03 - 00;41;39;15 Unknown The trial took place in Philadelphia City Hall on October 28th, 1895. The trial proved to be a show of the ages filled with manipulation and theatrics, which were acted, directed and produced by none other than H.H. Holmes himself. He was the star of his own Broadway show and pretty much his only fan. my. On the first day of the trial, Holmes ended up firing his legal counsel again, again and representing himself. 00;41;40;03 - 00;42;12;02 Unknown that'll work. Yeah, it always works. It works every time. Despite advice from the judge, after a while, Holmes had a change of heart again and wanted his lawyer back. Of course, this is after he was asked some very tough questions he couldn't explain away. On day three of the trial, they put Kerry Purcell on the stand. They showed her a letter from her daughter, Ellis, that had been written that Holmes never sent to Kerry. 00;42;12;09 - 00;42;40;25 Unknown She started weeping uncontrollably. Eventually, everyone in the courtroom was crying and weeping. Everyone but Holmes just kept doodling on his notepad. But later, Holmes most recent wife, Georgina York, enters the courtroom and all of a sudden Holmes starts crying uncontrollably. The jury reacted to this show of emotion is one of a very desperate men putting on a show. 00;42;40;27 - 00;43;11;29 Unknown The defense closed its case based on closing arguments alone. There would be no statement from Holmes, the crowd who waited so long to hear from Holmes were angry and disappointed. H.H. Holmes This case was the most covered case of its time from today's prospect of it would probably compare to the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard case, maybe just sadder and more depressing in a different way and less pooping on someone else's bed. 00;43;12;06 - 00;43;44;27 Unknown Likely as big as the O.J. Simpson trial of the day. If it does not fit, you must acquit. You must acquit. Holmes knew he was done the second that the jury sat down. Not a single one would look at him the moment that Holmes had never thought could possibly occur. A guilty verdict. He was found guilty of murder in the first degree and was hung on May 7th, 1896, just nine days before his 35th birthday, 35th, 35th. 00;43;44;29 - 00;44;10;02 Unknown The whole time I'm thinking this guy is like in his fifties or sixties or something. You would think 35th birthday. Please tell me the hanging failed and he suffered. No. So at 10:25 a.m., he is pronounced dead. Holmes His body was placed in a casket by his request. He was transferred into another coffin that was half filled with concrete. 00;44;10;09 - 00;44;39;03 Unknown Then he was placed into the coffin, and they poured more concrete over him, covering his body in concrete because the stupid bastard didn't run anybody else to take his skeleton. Right. You know. You know, they took the casket to Holy Cross Cemetery in you're in Philadelphia. You're Done here, did you then? I don't know. I was. It sounded like, though, you're like, you know, two liter hose and you're doing all this lederhosen guy. 00;44;39;05 - 00;45;04;15 Unknown They dug a grave ten feet deep and place the casket into the ground. Ten feet. Ten feet? Yeah. Crazy, right? I'm glad they're, you know, accommodating him, so. Yeah. I mean, they are nice in the ground after pouring eight large barrels of concrete on top of that, they then placed an empty casket on top of the concrete and filled the rest of it with dirt. 00;45;04;17 - 00;45;37;10 Unknown On May six, 2017, Penn archeologists exhumed the body of H.H. Holmes. Took them ten days to resume the body out of the earth and concrete. They found a cross with H.H. Holmes written on it. They also did a DNA testing, and the best they could conclude is that it is in line with the merchant family lineage. His body was placed into a white coffin and then put back into his grave on August 31st, 2017. 00;45;37;17 - 00;46;07;27 Unknown No concrete this time. No concrete. The same. Least they didn't mention any. Somebody could dig them up some skeleton. So there are many rumors and speculations when it comes to H.H. Holmes. Down to the number of victims, including H.H. Holmes and Jack the Ripper. The Jack the Ripper murders took place between 1888 and 1889, and at that time, it is said that H.H. Holmes was already in the process of building his Murder Castle. 00;46;08;04 - 00;46;36;10 Unknown But who knows? We may never know. Sadly, that is the burden of time. This was an interesting story, filled with a lot of information. Wait too much to delve into in just one podcast. So, conundrum. Feel free to pick up where I left off and fill in any interesting gaps that I might have missed. I'm filling in H.H. Holmes grave trip to Philly, and then on the way back, maybe check out the location where the murder castle used to reside. 00;46;36;11 - 00;47;06;02 Unknown Yeah, it's a post office now. It's a post office? Yeah, And I've heard it's haunted. Yeah, that's crazy. Possibly it is. Anyways, but I did watch a documentary on a guy that took a trip out there, and they wouldn't let him into the basement of the post office. So apparently, post office sits kind of in between the two lots, but the basement of the post office actually goes underneath the other lot. 00;47;06;03 - 00;47;31;28 Unknown Yeah, that other one. So weird. Supposedly that's where it's haunted and I'm sure we drove by it when we were in Chicago because we were inside. It was only a couple of miles from where the World's Fair was. And that wasn't the Navy Pier, the now Navy Pier? I think so, yeah. But yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure if we're close because the Inglewood is actually a couple miles away from. 00;47;32;00 - 00;48;04;23 Unknown I'll tell you. Tell you what, people, if you ever want to experience something that seems like it's the apocalypse going on, go to downtown Chicago on Thanksgiving. We went there to take my son out. He was in basic training for the Navy, and we got to take our soldiers out for the day. And we went down to the Navy pier and there was us and one other family with another Navy basic training, recruit, whatever. 00;48;04;25 - 00;48;29;26 Unknown And the streets were empty and there was nobody to be found. Yeah, it was very ghostly. It was. And it was kind of a gray and drizzly. It was it felt like very pop up. I can see that now. Apocalyptic. Yes. Because when I was there with my sister years, the city is just bustling and I mean. Well, yeah, when things are open. 00;48;29;27 - 00;48;53;10 Unknown Yeah. There was no cards on the road or anything. It was just stores open. No, nothing. Well, that was an incredible, incredible story. I learned so many things that I did not know about him. Yeah, I did, too. And, you know, it's funny, starting this story, I wasn't that intrigued. But as I started writing it, you know it. 00;48;53;12 - 00;49;16;07 Unknown I started getting a little bit more and more excited about it as it went on. And like I said, there's a lot of detail to this story. There's a lot more speculations and rumors. yeah. That people could dive into. It's just there was so much information and so many different trails that you could follow. He didn't kill those other kids, did he? 00;49;16;09 - 00;49;42;24 Unknown He just separated them, right? No, he killed them. All of the kids. Well, three of the ones that he had. my God. Yeah, but the one. The one boy, Henry, he was found in that house in Indianapolis, in the stove. And then Alice and Nanny, I think her name was. They both were found in the same house, buried underneath, I think. 00;49;42;24 - 00;50;05;01 Unknown Or I. Gosh, how did I miss that? Yeah, I thought they had he just separated them and had him in different I thought they were just literally living their lives in different houses. No, no. And the documentary that I watch, they kind of left that a little out there. Well, and this was. Wasn't that the family that he, like, became part of in the beginning? 00;50;05;01 - 00;50;37;22 Unknown Yeah, well, the whole Brazil was the friend, right? Business partner? Yeah, I guess I was just in my, my unicorn haven thinking that the kids were just fine. No, this blocked it out. Fine. But they did, right? Yeah. The one thing that I didn't add in there is so Alice, which is the oldest daughter. She kept writing letters to send back to Carrie, and they never got to her, so he must have kept them around for a while. 00;50;37;23 - 00;50;58;25 Unknown Right. And then, I don't know, I guess at some point, he just knew something was coming down the line and he had to get rid of them. That is insane. He's insane. He's insane. my God. So. But that's my story. It was amazing. And the one part that you talked about how they identified people by the measuring of the feet and the arms and. 00;50;58;28 - 00;51;20;02 Unknown Yeah, I never knew that either. It's funny because. Yeah, I mean, you're back in a time where there was nothing. There was nothing. No dental records, nothing, nothing. But yeah, I mean, you know, once the 1900 started popping off and, you know, you started getting more things like fingerprinting and. Right. You know, the Pinkertons with their mug shot. 00;51;20;05 - 00;51;39;27 Unknown Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah. And they had a database, I'm assuming is just like a book. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't a computer database. No, I want to research. Yeah. Well, I want to research the Pinkertons. That would be an interesting story, because all the names that you come across, you know, like trying to think of some of the ones that they actually. 00;51;39;27 - 00;52;01;16 Unknown Well, one the things that they did is they prevented the first assassination of Abraham Lincoln. Really? Yeah. And apparently they can prevent the second one. But, you know, and then there was a bunch of other stuff that they. Yeah. I think their story would be really cool. And I don't think I've ever heard any stories done on them. 00;52;01;16 - 00;52;20;19 Unknown So you got to watch more Westerns. Well, I mean, on podcast platform. really? Yeah. I don't think I've heard many people do stories of the Pinkertons. I know I had heard of them, but I didn't even know for sure what they were. I didn't realize they were like the. Yeah. They're basically the bounty hunters of the West. 00;52;20;27 - 00;52;45;10 Unknown The Old West. The old West. I love the old was so cool. It too. Except for the, you know, just shooting people in the street randomly and, you know. Well, you guys don't forget, I forgot to show this in the beginning. We also have that light is a little bit harsh on that. We also have our coffee cups for the merch. 00;52;45;12 - 00;53;08;01 Unknown They turned out so cute. I love our little pink brain. I like them too. He's so cute. So again, together, if you want to get any merch to go to bonfire dot com slash store slash. Total conundrum. Yeah. And we really would love to have some stories. So email us your story is because we would love to share them. 00;53;08;03 - 00;53;30;26 Unknown Yeah and don't forget to like subscribe click the bell, all that good stuff. Give us a review. A review? Yes. All that good stuff. Just do it all. Yeah. And maybe we should do a contest for people who go out there and review, do like a month long contest, and then we'll do a drawing. This is just. I haven't talked to Jeremy about this yet. 00;53;30;29 - 00;54;19;28 Unknown Just coming up with this right now, and maybe we can make the prize some total conundrums. Search. definitely. Something to talk about. Yeah, we'll. We'll. We'll figure it out and let you guys know. All right. Until next time. Later. Later. Happy New Year to you. Bye bye. Thanks for hanging out with us here. A total conundrum. Please make sure to check out our website and blog at Total Conundrum dot com for news, Upcoming events, merch bloopers and additional hysteria you never know will pop up, so be sure to follow along if you want to show your support for total Conundrum and gain access to all of our bonus content, please visit our patron page. 00;54;20;01 - 00;54;47;19 Unknown You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. The links are available on our show notes. If you have any questions, comments, recommendations or stories to share, please email us at contact at Total Conundrum dot com. Episodes are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. If you like the show, please rate review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. 00;54;47;22 - 00;55;28;13 Unknown We appreciate the love. Keep on keeping on Mother Truckers and fans and at home. And at home.